Big Game Hunting In Africa Is Economically Useless IUCN

[ActionBob]

yeah AB but who foots the bill?.........

here is a link to an sci page i have put a couple of comments on
http://huntforever.org/2015/08/11/s...fe-conservation/comment-page-1/#comment-20159

Mike I agree this is the issue and you were very polite and accurate in your comments. SCI is mostly preaching to the choir. I did post some thoughts on funding. Check this out, I think post #17 and # 11. http://www.africahunting.com/threads/shrinking-into-convalescence.23540/

I don't think most hunters realize the kind of funding a proper and effective ad/education/information campaign costs.... I don't know either and I'm not the guy to research it and figure it out... but my best guess is $200 million per year... Maybe I'm nuts on that.. But the organization I am mandated to pay into is minuscule in comparison to the competition and opposition... and I think it is in that range. That I may be able to figure out...

 

[enysse]

You know what they say about statistics....Yep they can be manipulated to look good or bad......

 

[gordon-kruger]

Those figures are false and not correct !

I agree, and don't understand why someone like to post this nonsense, made by people most probably not living in Africa... That turnover of $1,1 usd/ha is ridiculous, in that case a 3000 ha game farm in RSA should not even be able to pay the diesel for the generator..... A new GMA in Zambia (Chanjuzi) counting a net profit of $3,5 usd/ha but then its also 80,000 ha, and all game is quoted and payed to ZAWA.

A 15.000 ha game farm in Zambia can with right management give a pure net profit of $23-25 usd/ha, and if we can add one lion and one leopard per year we are up on $30-32 usd/ha !!!

 

[gordon-kruger]

I just coming back to this again, as smaller and more game intensity a farm is the higher the return will be, I'm involved in hunting farms in Zambia and also in RSA that have a yearly financial net profit $80 usd/ha !!

 

[enysse]

Gee and I thought hunting had no value......I thought the photo safari people only supported Africa....an anti-hunters dream

 

[spike.t]

I just coming back to this again, as smaller and more game intensity a farm is the higher the return will be, I'm involved in hunting farms in Zambia and also in RSA that have a yearly financial net profit $80 usd/ha !!

ok gordon so how big are the ones in SA.......10,000 hectares? $800,000 .......when can you adopt me please?

 

[broncolcj]

So the alternative is what exactly? Convert all hunting areas into soy fields? It isn't as if you can suddenly offset the loss of hunting revenue with photo tourism. These aren't the postcard picture areas like the national parks.

 

[ActionBob]

So the alternative is what exactly? Convert all hunting areas into soy fields?

Hell in Zimbabwe they have converted the good farmland to.... Well a frickin mess! We hunted an area that had a nice irrigation project for the local community to grow corn on year round. Very good black river bottom soil, good irrigation wells with a big supply of water, flood irrigated with the land leveled and breaks installed... And all left to go to heck, parts missing off the diesel motors and pumps, brush and trees grown up... It had even been fenced to keep out the wildlife and lifestock. A bunch of donkeys and some skinny cattle grazing on it but there was not even good grass. When I inquired why it had been left go, the reply was twofold. First it belonged to the community so no one person was in charge... When they got a committee together to talk, they ended up drinking beer and got nothing accomplished.... Then the real deth blow... US food aid... In fact they brought the yellow ADM corn bags to carry meat home.... Why farm communal land you don't own when you can get corn for free? Communism at it's finest! Then to really welcome us Americans, they were wearing the condoms in their hair. Apparently Obama has send pallets of them over and that is how they choose to use them... And they laugh at us about it.

But that was the one small piece of land suitable for farming. A lot of it is not and wildlife is the best use... Any common idiot can see that. Takes a real specially talented idiot to come up with BS like the statistics this thread is about!

 

[PeteG]

Then to really welcome us Americans, they were wearing the condoms in their hair. Apparently Obama has send pallets of them over and that is how they choose to use them...

 

[gordon-kruger]

Sure why not Spike (Mike), a 3000 ha farm in EC was last year gave a net profit of 240,000 dollars before taxes, so its exactly 80 usd/ha I say again it must be well managed and if they combine the hunting with game breeding and focus on genetic quality the profit will climb up much more than 80 usd/ha

 

[AB2506]

https://www.facebook.com/permalink.php?story_fbid=885299108212269&id=134123526663168&fref=nf

http://www.iied.org/rip-cecil-lion-what-will-be-his-legacy-who-should-decide#.VcynYPecwiA.facebook

http://www.bbc.com/news/world-africa-33807477?SThisFB

Or read our SCI Calgary facebook page. We try to keep it up to date on items of SCI and conservation news. If you have any suggestions, let me know. I'm new to this and need all the help I can get. Our chapter is in transition, so again, any words of of help is appreciated.

 

[lcq]

Statistics are like a bikini.

What they reveal is very intriguing. However what they conceal is vital!

Or the old gem. Figures don't lie but liars figure

 

[AB2506]

Sure why not Spike (Mike), a 3000 ha farm in EC was last year gave a net profit of 240,000 dollars before taxes, so its exactly 80 usd/ha I say again it must be well managed and if they combine the hunting with game breeding and focus on genetic quality the profit will climb up much more than 80 usd/ha

I would caution about game breeding when seeking the biggest animals. I believe that plays into the anti-hunter's hands with the whole concept that hunting is solely "trophy"-centric. If for restocking lands, I think game breeding will enjoy public support, but trying to breed a 50" buffalo, it won't IMO.

 

[gordon-kruger]

AB, everybody that running a game farm looking for genetic strong breeding animals, you selective and take out bad gens and it's nothing new my friend, even in Europe they did this for 150 years ago and today more than ever on roe/fallow/red deer. Why breed small body Zambian Impala when you can very easy restock your farm with Zimbabwean impala that are 20 % larger in both body weight and trophy size ???? And please remember that folks down in RSA that breeding +50" buffalos like billionaire Rupert and some other comparable to him do not care what some anti hunters screaming about.. ... and if Rupert and Oppenheimer that are into game breeding should tomorrow decide to leave South Africa it would be devastating for not only the game breeding industry but most probably for the whole country... hunting included.

 

[enysse]

Yes, everyone is breeding the best genetic stock, nothing new here. It's easier to sell, it's just good business.

 

[gordon-kruger]

yes enysse, and I can't see anything wrong with that, seriously there is no business or company in the whole world that produce a product that are low quality if they can produce a high quality product for the same time and the same production cost... and genetic breeding is what everybody indirect want, a hunting client prefer to shoot a 44" hard bossed a bit worn down buffalo as a life time trophy instead of 33 incher. And even the "greenies" when they go for a photo safari would love to see a 280 kg dark and full maned lion, all this is from controlled breeding and use of the best genes, even the lions down in Kruger have controlled breeding genes from breeding farms and released in the park to introduce not only new blood but the best genetics !

 

[Diamondhitch]

Killing 600 lions out of 25000 (2.4%) is unsustainable??? How so, especially when the majority are males. Very few males are required to breed a large amount of females and 600 represents a very small handful of the male population. Load of crap.

No need to beat the dead horse about the rest of that, ie: the "benefits" of utilizing land for agriculture instead of wildlife??? Great argument for conservation guys???

 

[barryk]

"The White Rhino...A Conservation Success Story" presents some very positive data regarding how sport hunting is much more economically beneficial than strictly farming alone. I received my DVD from "African Hunting Gazette" magazine. Really good information and well organized and presented.

 

[Diamondhitch]

When landowners VOLLUNTARILY switch from cattle to game, when THEIR ONLY MOTIVATIONIS PROFIT, they tell the story of what is the most viable use.

 

[bushpig]

I think the economic argument this paper presents has some substance however ignores a) the alternatives which would result in the loss of wildlife b) the ecotourism sector could hardly take on all these areas and remain profitable and c) the conservation principle of if it pays it stays.

However the current model of comparatively small numbers of wealthy hunters exclusively utilising large tracts of land is not sustainable. Hunting needs to become more democratic in Africa. I just returned from a trip to the states and was staggered at the size of the outdoors industry where hunting seems to be more of a blue collar activity. Bottom line more hunters has spawned quite an important industry from outdoor retail to the outfitters themselves. I understand that the income levels of both continents are vastly different but you've got to start somewhere.

I am not poverty stricken by any means but it has always grated me that I could never be able to afford to hunt the government areas of Zim as a Zim citizen. Increasing or restoring citizen hunting could help but I understand this could put some folks noses out. Interesting discussion though.