Big Bore Reloading Questions

[zephyr]

I am on the road till Tuesday late, when I get home to my loading journals I will post a few loads for you...

 

[zephyr]

Sorry to have taken so long to get back to you,
My 450NE is a Gibbs, built on a Webley Scott screw grip action circa 1905 and sports 28” barrels I purchased her from Geo Caswell and Champlin Arms 12yrs ago,.
Here is the load that they send with the Double..

Woodleigh 480sn 63grns IMR 30301 3grns of poly fill 1900fps

I then purchased Grahame Wrights’ book and started experimenting with RL15 and settled on ..

Woodleigh 480sn 84grns RL15 3grns poly fill 2150fps..
A Gentleman on another website did a series of pressure tests using barrel strain gauges and the effects of using fillers, his results which showed lots of pressure variation from shot to shot made me want to try another powder, (trying to be nice to an old gun) with the advice from a fellow 450ne loader I switched to H4831sc which fills the case,
I settled on…

CEB #13 480grn 100grns H4831sc 2150fps this is the load I shot my Ele with.
CEB Raptor 100grns H4831sc 2180fps
My fellow 450ne shooter has spent a lot of time at the bench with his VC 450NE his problem with RL15 was lots of variation in velocity and was very happy with H4831’s performance. He enjoys his time at the bench and has shot every conceivable .458 bullet out of his gun.
I have been playing with foam fillers and the 3031 load for a some what reduced load.

The 75% rule works very well with this cartridge keep the same powder charge and replace it with a 350grn bullet, the recoil is less but seems a bit more snappier. I have never chronied this load but the poi is the same. I have shot a lot of Hornadys 350grn round nose bullets out of the gun.

The other load to think about is a Trail Boss load it pushes a 480 grn bullet out of the end of the gun around 1100-1200fps or what ever bullet you care to shoot. I have been shooting 405grn cast of late the beauty of this load is you think you are holding on to a .22. Lots of folks have become Trail Boss fans, Todd Williams on this site is one of them. I shoot the loads to help re-establish good muscle memory after a range session with full power loads, same gun, same trigger, same sight picture, no recoil period. The loads do print low but it does not really matter as all you are shooting is paper. I have started to flip up my 200yrd leaf with brings the poi up to poa. I can say that the shooting of my Double has improved using Trail Boss. I am in the process of putting together a Trail Boss load for a friends 500 Jeff.
http://www.hodgdon.com/PDF/Tra...uced-Loads%20R_P.pdf

You will like the 450NE, the shape of the cartridge lends it self to thinner barrels at the breech end making it easier to carry and lovely to swing, my Double with her 28” barrels swings like a good shotgun.

Every year when I pause at the VC booth at SCI and fondle their guns I envision owning one of their 500s, but I would have to use my beloved Gibbs as trade bait and it just doesn’t set right. It does every thing I need it to do, it shot my first Ele and hopefully it will shoot my next.

Good shooting…

 

[Fr8liner]

Thank you for taking the time and this wealth of information. That is a truly beautiful rifle, wish mine was more classic. But it is what it is and I will enjoy it....

 

[Velo Dog]

Hi Zephyr,

Your work on a .500 Jeffery / Trail Boss powder load interests me (I have a .500 Jeffery and full pressure loads I think might about knock my teeth loose).
So far I have been shooting with "only" .500 NE equivalent ballistics in my Jeffery but an even lighter load sounds good to me.
The main reason I chose it over the .505 is that .510 - .511 diameter bullets, of various weights and also including cast lead are quite available and so, a T. Boss "plinking load" has always been in the back of my mind.

Cheers,
Velo Dog.

 

[zephyr]

Vrlo Dog sending pm

 

[Fr8liner]

Going to be trying some loads tomorrow for my 450 double using 360 grain bullets with a change in powder. Was thinking of doing a couple each in various powder charges to see what gives me the best POI for both barrels.
Do you think I should go up a grain at a time or less increments or maybe larger increment, maybe 2 grains at a time to start?

 

[zephyr]

I usually work up 1grn at a time with my 450. The 480gr bullet at 2150fps is the standard load that is used for regulating most doubles in this caliber. Using the 75% rule, one can take the same powder charge that they are using for their 480gr Bullets and load a bullet that is 75% less in weight in this case 360grs it should give you the same POA , POI as the 480 grn load..
I usually load up 4 rounds of the same it will give me a good sampling of what the load is doing
Have Fun

 

[Fr8liner]

Me again, what distance do you shoot at? Bench or free stand? What size target ?

 

[zephyr]

For working up loads I usually shoot at 25yrds seems the most accurate with irons and "MY" eyes. I've used 6" "shoot n Sees" holding center using an equi-distant black edge around the front bead...seems to work well, the other option that I have been pondering is cutting a 6" shoot n see in half with the target half from 9:00 to 3:00 and floating the front bead on the bottom vertical edge pretty much a 12:00 hold to a round target I have also seen targets cut from center to 10:00 and 2:00 and the shooter placing the front sight on the bottom point of the target...
Good Luck keep us posted..

 

[Fr8liner]

So here it is, we loaded 2 of each starting from 93grains to 100grains in 1 grain intervals using 360grain Rhino bullets.
Shooting off sticks at 40 metres.
93 grains 94 grains 95 grains and Not sure what happened here with the first shot, but that second one I definately pulled badly, right over to left.

 

[Fr8liner]

96 grains
97 grains
98 grains, not sure what happened either, both felt like very good shots.
Same again on 99 grains, also both felt good.

100grains was best!

 

[Fr8liner]

For reference I have included what the rifle came regulated to.

It's has definately always shot to the left so will adjust that.

 

[William W.]

The best advice for those starting out in reloading os RTFM (read the $&@# manual. Loads that work for some folks and some rifles and some bullets (of the same weight) may not work for others. By the way, I use magnum primers for everything but 223. I am partial to Vihtavuori powder. I try to use VVN160 for most large bore rifles because it can be purchased in 8-pound "kegs." Yes, I should be using, VVN165, and I have some 1-pounders of that. Incidentally, the 375 H&H appears to require a faster burning powder than expected (VVN140 for 308 or VVN150 which one of my 308s requires so the bolt will open). Different powders have different temperature sensitivities. For example, Hodgdon's Varget (used for 308), but as noted above can be used for 375 H&H, is touted as being relatively insensitive to temperature - a consideration for hot African hunting. The load amount for a fast-burning powder for the same bullet and caluber is significantly less than for skow-burning powders. Bottom line: powder selection and amount used is very serious business that, in starting out, should be manual-based. The manuals are on-line! There is zero excuse for being lazy and not doing your own research. Incidentally, you can use pistols powders in rifles,, with a very small loads; morons full-loading rifle cartridges with pistol powder are Darwin Award candidates.

 

[Bob Nelson 35Whelen]

Find a friend or colleague that reloads and look at his set up, let him show you how. Books are great but nothing like hands on experience. Also, look at the lay out, you don't need alot of room but it should be well thought out and organized, everything in a logical sequence.
I ONLY use IMR 4350 in my rifles, and I ONLY use Magnum primers, I once ALMOST got myself into a heap of trouble by having too many powders and primers, etc... I mis-read the charts and gave myself a 10 grain over the max load and shot it not once, but twice (bolt had to be pounded open, primer blown, so like an idiot I shot again - same result).

Lots of info on the internet from various bullet and powder companies, some are more conservative, so work up slowly (1/2 grain increments) - I don't bother with tenths of grains, alot pf people do, I don't - my preference.

Many years ago I bought a 375 H&H too good a buy not to, at the time a box of 30.06 were about $8 and 375 was $30 that's when I started reloading, now all the ammo is expensive and reloading makes alot of sense. We're having the same issues with components as with ammo - a large shortage - but it's getting better.

As mentioned, to the best of my knowledge all dies are standard thread and interchangable - I use RCBS but that's what I started with and I am a loyal customer.

One last bit of advice DO NOT clean your dies with parts cleaner or brake cleaner. I did, and today I had to buy a new set for my 7mm rem mag. Use only dish detergent and water of you need to really clean them, then compressed air to dry them out and a light coat of oil. Just my 2 cents..

@greyfox
I've cleaned my dies with metho or thinners for years without issues and wipe down the OUTSIDE ONLY with INOX
Never spay the inside of your dies as it attracts dust and will suff a die very quickly.
Always use a good case lube like readings sparingly and clean the decapper/ expander to avoid it dragging in the neck.

 

[Rare Breed]

As AkMike recommended, I've decided to start reloading. The ammo prices in the big bores certainly justify it, and my sons will probably enjoy it.

I've ordered a book on the subject, and hopefully it will answer most of my questions.

JJ at Champlins re-regulated the Heym that he converted for me from 458 Win Mag to 450 NE with 450 gr NF solids. The rounds he used he loaded with IMR 3031 powder. Are there significant differences in the various powders offered? If I start loading for a 450 NE and 470 NE, then expand into .375 H&H and .416 Rem, is IMR 3031 a good choice?

The Lee Classic Press was recommended for easier clearance with the long NE cartridges. Do Hornady dies work with a Lee Classic Press? What about other presses? Hornady has said that their classic press will work, but it takes some effort to get the bullet in initially.

Now I just have to convince the wife that this is really a money-saving endeavor. Might be tough because I use that argument often, and usually it turns out to be wrong ....

I have used IMR3031 and it works great. Here is a key point for you that I don’t see in many discussions but given the number of doubles I have owned and reloaded for I have found from experience. Most doubles according to JJ do best between 2050 to 2100 FPS in terms of regulation. If recoil bothers you the lower the grains of powder to achieve your desired FPS as long as it falls below the maximum PSI for your rifle the lower recoil. I love seeing comments for large bores at over 100 grains of powder knowing the recoil will be “stout”. A great example is Ken Owen using IMR3031 for one of my 500 NE. Amazing the reduced recoil yet achieved my targeted FPS under maximum PSI

 

[William W.]

The absolute best case lube is Dillon Precision’s; it ia a spray-on solution. I load everything from 9mm, to 223 to 300 Norma Magnum to 375H&H on Dillion presses. I use only Redding dies. Get yourself a powder burn rate chart. IMR3031 is rated as somewhat fast, although many loading manuals for 375H&H favor relatively fast powders. I use treasured old slow Win780 in my 375 H&H. With 82.0 grains and 300-grain bullets I get 2488fps.