Best two gun combination for Africa?

[BenKK]

Seeing the posts of so many of my brother sportsmen , l feel sad seeing how the Full metal Jacket Traditional Solids have lost favor Nowadays , Monolithic meplat brass Solids seem all the rage , which is well deserved because l use Cutting Edge Monolithic meplat brass Solids myself for both my .375 HH Magnums. But damn , l don't want FMJS to go obsolete either

No way, mate! FMJs work, plain and simple. Lost count of all the buffalo I’ve knocked-over effortlessly with them.

 

[Hoss Delgado]

No way, mate! FMJs work, plain and simple. Lost count of all the buffalo I’ve knocked-over effortlessly with them.

Yay !!!

 

[njc110381]

Times change I suppose. There was a time when a bow and arrow was the best kit on offer - technology is constantly improving and better options appear all the time.

A FMJ round is probably still perfectly good. But there are now more reliable options perhaps?

 

[Andrews]

In Craig Boddington's book "Safari Rifles II" he mentions the .338 and .416 as being a great 2 rifle battery and I would have to agree. In my inexperienced opinion there isn't much that can't be done with this combo

 

[njc110381]

My initial thought was for a .338 Win Mag. I had a Ruger Hawkeye in that calibre and it was a pretty decent gun. Maybe when my 7STW is shot out I will rebarrel it in .338. The STW won't last that long, less than 1000 rounds generally.

 

[Luvthunt]

340 WBY and 458 Lott.

 

[Hunting Sailor]

If you had a .416 as a big calibre, what would you pair it with for a mixed game trip to Africa?

One of the faster 7mm or one of the faster .30 with 170-200 grain bullets would be a great combination with the .416 and will cover much of the mixed game on the lighter side.

 

[bruce moulds]

My initial thought was for a .338 Win Mag. I had a Ruger Hawkeye in that calibre and it was a pretty decent gun. Maybe when my 7STW is shot out I will rebarrel it in .338. The STW won't last that long, less than 1000 rounds generally.

1000 deer is a lot of deer.
actually I am thinking of making my stw into a 338/8mm rem mag, ballistically equal to a 340 wby..
bruce.

 

[spike.t]

.300 win mag and. 416 Rigby

 

[grand veneur]

340 WBY and 458 Lott.

I also think that's a very good combination for Africa.

It is always better to have a rifle which allows you to shoot something larger if needed. Africa and its inhabitants can be dangerous. You have only one rifle in your hand and in case of emergency you do not always have time to take another bigger rifle. The cartridge 340WM seems to me best suited for such a thing.

I also own a rifle caliber 340wm , in most cases i hunt but with only one big bore rifle. It is not always easy to take two rifles with you.

 

[BeeMaa]

Having a wife that hunts definitely has it's advantages.
She would take a 6.5x55SE and 300WM.
For me a 375H&H and 416Rigby (or maybe a 500/416 double).

 

[njc110381]

1000 deer is a lot of deer.
actually I am thinking of making my stw into a 338/8mm rem mag, ballistically equal to a 340 wby..
bruce.

I like to play with it at the range sometimes too. I bought it with the intention of putting a .338 barrel on it but then really liked it as it is. You don't find many rounds that can punch a hole in a 10mm AR500 gong and as for exploding 2 litre water bottles, not much beats it for that either!

There aren't many STW shooters out there. What loads do you prefer in yours? I'm currently running 160gr Accubonds over RL22 which work well for UK deer.

 

[bruce moulds]

njc,
there are not too many STWs here in oz either.
I used to use a 7rem mag for a general purpose rifle, as it has about the recoil of a 30/06, the max I can use repeatedly and still shoot reasonably well, but has a longer point blank than a 30/06.
at the time I was hunting goats and donkeys in open mountains.
I then went to a 280 rem in a lighter rifle for the same recoil.
when layne simpson did his first write up in the stw, it became necessary to try one.
knowing it to be hard on barrels, the 280 remained as the general purpose rifle, with the stw as a specialized tool.
with 140 gn bullets at 3400, 150 at 3300, and 160 at 3200, a zero at 300 yds is real for medium game, giving a point blank of 350.
very few bullets could stand that speed at closer range.
the 140 ballistic tip just became a varmint bullet.
to cut a long storey short, the only barrels available then were 10" twist, precluding really long bullets.
the 160 gn nosler partition turned out to be a good bullet for smaller deer and goats, as the nose just blows off, allowing lung shots.
for bigger things the 150 gn barnes original x proved accurate and useful.
it will take down big camels emphatically with good shot placement.
I worked out loads with ar2214, a powder no longer available, with a burning rate slower than h1000.
still have about 300 loads with this powder.
140 gn bullets worked well with imr7828, but we cannot get that in oz now.
this cartridges might be amongst the best all round deer cartridges, as with the right bullets it offers chances in a broad range of distances.
it is easy to miss with the stw by shooting high.
if out of touch with it, it trajectory (its big advantage) can trick you.
if going to Africa with 3 rifles, perhaps the stw, the 340 wby, and a 416 of some description (or a bigger stopper) would have you pretty well covered for most situations.
bruce.

 

[One Day...]

Just a passing thought. If you had a .416 as a big calibre, what would you pair it with for a mixed game trip to Africa? I have a nice belted magnum action sat here, wondering what calibre to build? It's not controlled feed but for plains game I don't suppose it matters too much.

The caliber is only half the question...

So, my personal response, just to put a little spice in the dish , will be: a CZ550 in .300 Wby.

- A CZ 550, so that you have a matched pair DG & PG battery with your CZ 550 .416 Rigby. Advantages are self explanatory.

- A .300 Wby because it is actually two rifles in one:

• with a 130 gr TTSX at 3,650 fps it shoots actually a little flatter than a .257 Wby with 100 gr TTSX (or as flat as your 7 STW). One can hardly think of something better on small to medium PG in Africa or elsewhere, including distant mountain game.

• with a 200 gr TSX at 3,000 fps, or even 220 gr slugs, it hits as hard as a .338 Win and not much less than a .340 Wby (no Wildebeest or Sable will ever know the difference), and after the first few inches of penetration the 200 gr TSX is heavier than the 250 gr Nosler Partition that made these two calibers famous, and that loose their front core (~40% of their entire weight) during initial expansion.

Admittedly, the .300 Win nudges the answer, but the Wby (or RUM) simply flies faster, flatter and further . Not by very much with light loads (150 fps), but significantly more with heavier loads (250 to 300 fps). Some will prefer the Win for ammo availability; it is a good point. I prefer the Wby for performance.

Actually, funny you would ask that question now njc110381, I am in the process of replacing my matched pair .257 Wby & .340 Wby for another matched pair of CZ 550 .375 H&H (or .416 Rigby - I have both) and CZ 550 .300 Wby, all of them tuned up (action job, Timney trigger, Gentry/AHR "Win 70" safety, filled & straightened bolt handle, barrel band swivel, B&C Kevlar stock).

You can likely find easily a CZ 550 .300 Win in Europe with a 25" barrel but they are likely built on the standard length CZ 550 action and you could not have it rechambered to the Wby, the action is too short. You need a magnum length action to take the .300 Wby. I am having the CZ custom shop screw a 26" barrel chambered in .300 Wby - with CZ integral rear sight base and barrel bands front sight and swivel - on a magnum action.

For your African safari, one Pelican 1700 case (the same as used by Blaser ) will easily house a take-down matched pair as follows:
- one Kevlar/Aramid CZ stock (Bell & Carlson Medalist in reality)
- one CZ 550 barreled action (.375 H&H or .416 Rigby in my case, depending on what I hunt)
- one CZ 550 barreled action .300 Wby (with two loads to cover anything from Steenbok to Eland - although I would shoot the Eland with the .375 or .416 in this case)
- two scopes (1.25-4 x 20 Schmidt & Bender and 2.5-10 x 48 Zeiss) on QD mounts (Talley or Warnes)

The CZ rifles are bullet proof; tuned up, they are just as smooth as the old ZKK 602 could become; they are CRF; upgraded, they have a true firing-pin blocking safety (Gentry or AHR); they have genuine integral and barrel band iron sights that are actually regulated; upgraded, they have best-in-class triggers (Timney or AHR); they have 5+1 capacity (4+1 for the Rigby); they have integral scope mounting dovetails on their double square bridge, and full length aluminum bedding block in the B&C stock, so they do return 100% of the time to zero (I have verified); they are rightfully the workhorse of Africa, and for good reasons; and configured as above they are as portable as a Blaser R8. What else could one wish for?

Is there an idea for you in there njc110381 ?


PS 1: my next matched pair concept was going to be a barely used Blaser R8 Pro Safari with two barrels (.375 H&H & .300 Win to be rechambered to .300 Wby) but the deal recently fell apart , and they are just too expensive new, in my mind. I just can't comprehend paying $7,000 for one + $2,000 for just a second barrel. But it is just me...

PS 2: an issue with the .257 Wby / .340 Wby combo was also that .257 is too small for many countries plains game minimum caliber requirements (I had not thought of that when I bought it...), and .340 Wby is too small for most DG minimum caliber requirements, although obviously both can do the respective job. With .300 and .375 or .416 these issues too are addressed.

 

[njc110381]

I hadn't thought of two actions sharing a stock. I have the Bell and Carlson stocked .416 Rigby already so it wouldn't be hard to add to that. My Peli is a 1750 though, I can fit two complete rifles in there.

 

[grand veneur]

I am rather a supporter of a one-gun safari.

I am always satisfied when I can easily travel with one rifle. It will not be easier. Also, it is not easy to carry 2 rifles with ammunition on the area and often there is no time to select the right rifle at the right time.

All this only makes sense if you divide the hunt , today I'm hunting Big Game , tomorrow Plain Game. That is not always possible , at times you have a good opportunity to shot a big one but not the right rifle in your hands.

For me and IMHO it's not easy and a little bit theoretical. Surely it has a flair of classic safaris where a battery of rifles were brought , but you also had a lot more staff around you. A lot has changed in many areas.

I never had any problems to shoot Plain Game with Big Bore rifles during Big Game hunting. I only see a problem if you have to shoot at long range , but that is rare in a area where Big Game is hunted.

But there are certainly hunters who have made other experiences.

 

[One Day...]

I hadn't thought of two actions sharing a stock. I have the Bell and Carlson stocked .416 Rigby already so it wouldn't be hard to add to that. My Peli is a 1750 though, I can fit two complete rifles in there.

Yep, I have a 1750 too, but it turns out that it exceeds the standard airlines 62 linear inches allowed for "standard size" luggage. The 1750 measures 53 x 16 x 6 = 75 linear inches, and even though I have not been charged yet for excess luggage size for it, I am thinking that it is just a question of time given the current airlines trend...
More importantly the 1750 is really a pain to drag through airports and to fit in vehicles, and it is 9 lbs heavier than the 1700.
There is something to be said about the take-down concept and smaller rifle cases...

For me and IMHO it's not easy and a little bit theoretical. Surely it has a flair of classic safaris where a battery of rifles were brought , but you also had a lot more staff around you. A lot has changed in many areas.

Actually, and the Pelican 1750 is a good case in point, many folks own a two rifles case, and it is actually not more complicated or more expensive to travel with two rifles rather than with one, as long as your rifle case does not exceed 50 lbs. Many certainly prefer one rifle if they can, but you would be surprised by the number of folks who take two rifles for various reasons.

The more obvious reason, as you mention, is a PG and a DG rifle (I have done that when my trip included buffalo)...

...but many will also argue the redundancy factor, which is very real; and sometimes the difference in game (Vaal Rhebok and Sable / Roan as in my last trip) makes it very pleasurable...

For example, in 2018 when I had my .470 NE along for buffalo, I collected everything else (16 plains game trophies plus a few cull), literally from Steenbok to Elan with my .340 Wby, and it worked great, see https://www.africahunting.com/threa...faris-august-2018-plains-game-paradise.45017/.

But this year, it was a pleasure to have the light recoiling .257 Wby with which I took almost everything (17 plains game trophies), save for the Sable that I took with the .340 Wby. I had also intended to use the .340 Wby on the Roan but I ended using purposefully the .257 Wby to test the upper limit of the round capabilities. It worked great by the way with 100 gr TTSX. See https://www.africahunting.com/threa...ill-safaris-even-better-than-last-year.52376/.

To each their own, certainly, but njc110381's .416 Rigby would be stretched at 350 yards on a Vaal Rhebok...

 

[grand veneur]

There is actually one hunting situation where you really need 2 rifles.

In case you want to hunt with a double rifle and open sights , you are very limited with such rifles what good shot placement concerns at ranges over 50 yards or with poor visibility. That's why it's better to take a scoped bolt action rifle too.

 

[Jon Glajchen]

For me it would be a 375H&H for all bushveld hunting incl buffalo, as well as a 300 mag (Win, H&H) for plains game in the more open areas of the country including the Kalahari, Namibia etc.

The 300 mag will allow you make longer shots at plains game from Springbuck upwards including the tough Gemsbok, Zebra and Eland. It can also double up if required as a bushveld rifle as long as monolithic or bonded ammunition (Swift A Frames) is used for the close shots. This obviously excludes Buffalo.

It is always good to have a back up rifle in case something goes wrong and not use it, than not have one and need one!

 

[njc110381]

Ah man, I so badly want a double rifle! But kid steps - My time and money would be much better spent learning to shoot my .416 bolt well and then hunting with it before I even consider another gun as an option.

Part of me still thinks that two scopes on the same rifle wouldn't be a completely terrible idea. One low mag and one with a little more for plains shots. .416 Rigby trajectory with the lighter Barnes bullets looks pretty good. 8" drop at 300 with a 200 zero is easy enough to work with as long as I can hold it steady. Long term I don't really see that as an issue.