Best practice vs good enough for hunting

[PARA45]

No matter what anyone tells you, you don't need a bunch of expensive gear to make accurate ammo. Keeping it simple will take longer but it sounds like you may benefit from that. However, what you do need is a meticulous, methodical process to both produce good ammo and keep you in one piece. If at anytime you wonder if you missed a step- stop, backtrack and start over. Making accurate ammo is easily accomplished, you just need to maintain focus and follow a complete process.

+1 on this part. "However, what you do need is a meticulous, methodical process to both produce good ammo and keep you in one piece. "

I remember when I first started reloading and I was a poor Airman First Class in the Air Force making $275 every two weeks, I bought a Lee Loader to load for my only centerfire rifle, a Rem 700 ADL in 243. Believe or not, the Lee Loader produced accurate and safe ammo to use in my rifle. I even took some 300ish shots at ground squirrels and took some deer with the ammo I reloaded. So, even with the bare bone equipment you can produce quality ammo. But, like @Albert GRANT said, you need to be meticulous, & methodical. Most reloading manuals have a section on reloading, and I would suggest getting a couple of manuals. Oh, and ask questions.

 

[John the Electrician]

Hi John,
I personally tend to favor depriming first with a dedicated depriming die that does not reshape the case. After depriming, I tumble the cases with SS media prior to inspection and resizing.

I have a few reasons for preferring this order. 1) By depriming prior to tumbling, the SS media does most (if not all) of the primer pocket cleaning for me. 2) By using a dedicated depriming station, then cleaning prior to resizing, I keep a lot of dirt and fouling out of my resizing die. Since the depriming die does not really touch the case, the dirt and fouling has little chance to damage it. 3) By cleaning prior to resizing, I have one additional opportunity to inspect the clean cases and find potentially dangerous faults or signs of weakness.

At first, I saw the dedicated depriming station as an extra step, but after committing to it, I find it not only produces better and more consistent cases, it doesn't really take any more time since I save much of the time I used to spend cleaning primer pockets individually. Of course I'm somebody who individually weighs every one my powder charges even when I'm reloading for a handgun so take my approach with a grain of salt (or a grain of Varget...)

JohnD29, thank you.

I am aware that I will receive a variety of commentary, but this is what I was hoping for. As a beginner, I didn't know there were dedicated depriming dies that do not reshape the case. I can see the advantages in that. You (and others) have provided your thoughts on letting the media clean the primer pockets, and I understand that to some guys who handload that is adequate and to others more attention to the pocket is preferred.

I now realize there is a lot of room for interpretation regarding the title of the thread; it made sense in my mind. Here is an analogy of what I meant by "Best Practice vs Good Enough for Hunting"

Say I need a daily driver car. So I do some research about safety ratings, fuel economy, warranties and pricing. I also ask around to people who own or used to own that same kind of car what they think about it. I buy that car and it starts and drives just fine; a consistent performing vehicle with no performance upgrades. That is what I meant by "good enough."

Some people are in the same situation where they need/want a car, but they go about it in a different way. They try and get the highest performing vehicle they can from the beginning, then they add tons of upgrades. Roll bars, full body harness seat belts, upgraded brake systems for safety; headers, computer chips and engine work for more horsepower.


I have been around guns and reloading and read enough to know there are extremes and deep rabbit holes to this. I was wanting to start a conversation about reloading, where I could ask some beginner questions and get some conversational answers. I learn best that way, know it isn't a substitute for having reloading manuals; I have a few of those too. So I am hoping we can continue the discussion in a positive, respectful and helpful manner. Myself included.

John

 

[Bob Nelson 35Whelen]

I have pretty much all the basic equipment I need to reload. Long story short my brother and I were halves on the equipment and I bought out his half. The thing is, he was the brains behind our reloading.

My question to the group is, if I am not concerned with precision long range shooting for tiny groups what processes and procedures are adequate for moderate range hunting. To quantify that let’s say 200 yards is a medium shot distance with 400 yards being very far (for me at least.)

One question specifically is how important is it to deprime brass and have the stainless steel media clean the primer pockets? Vs running spent brass through the tumbler and then depriming, which saves a couple of steps but leaves a dirty pocket.

What do you guys do that is good enough for general hunting ammo?

@John the Electrician
There are NO SHORTCUTS in reloading. If you do you may have a shortcut to the ED or worse the morgue.
Primer pocket cleaning for me is a lee primer pocket cleaner inbetwixt cleaning brass in the Lyman cyclone tumbler with the stainless pins.
To me loading blocks are dangerous things. You have the chance of spilling a lot of valuable powder
I do each step using containers. Once the case is charged with powder it IMMEDIATELY gets the projectile seated. No chance of spilling powder or loading an empty case if interrupted.
Bob

 

[Bob Nelson 35Whelen]

+1 on this part. "However, what you do need is a meticulous, methodical process to both produce good ammo and keep you in one piece. "

I remember when I first started reloading and I was a poor Airman First Class in the Air Force making $275 every two weeks, I bought a Lee Loader to load for my only centerfire rifle, a Rem 700 ADL in 243. Believe or not, the Lee Loader produced accurate and safe ammo to use in my rifle. I even took some 300ish shots at ground squirrels and took some deer with the ammo I reloaded. So, even with the bare bone equipment you can produce quality ammo. But, like @Albert GRANT said, you need to be meticulous, & methodical. Most reloading manuals have a section on reloading, and I would suggest getting a couple of manuals. Oh, and ask questions.

@PARA45
A LEE loader can actually speed up the reloading process as you don't have to lube your case then clean the lube off it. The Lee just neck sizes the case and you can deprime at the same time..
Only problem is you need to use brass from YOUR RIFLE ONLY. This shouldn't be an issue .

After this it's a simple matter to prime charge and seat on a press.
Neck sizes cases usually produce more accurate rounds, for me anyway.
As to OP asked is primer pocket cleaning beneficial. I find it quick to just use a lee primer pocket cleaner. A couple of quick twists and done. Do you need to do it every reload, depend on how anal you are. I have let cases go for up to ten rounds without an issue but as I anneal after every fifth load and trim I usually run them thru the Lyman cyclone tumbler after that as well but that's just me. Brass is to expensive to mistreat.
Bob

 

[Philip Glass]

I have pretty much all the basic equipment I need to reload. Long story short my brother and I were halves on the equipment and I bought out his half. The thing is, he was the brains behind our reloading.

My question to the group is, if I am not concerned with precision long range shooting for tiny groups what processes and procedures are adequate for moderate range hunting. To quantify that let’s say 200 yards is a medium shot distance with 400 yards being very far (for me at least.)

One question specifically is how important is it to deprime brass and have the stainless steel media clean the primer pockets? Vs running spent brass through the tumbler and then depriming, which saves a couple of steps but leaves a dirty pocket.

What do you guys do that is good enough for general hunting ammo?

Factory ammo is good enough.

 

[Bob Nelson 35Whelen]

Factory ammo is good enough.

@Philip Glass
If you can afford it now days. Dang even my son's 308 has never had a factory round out thru it.
Bob

 

[Boone66]

I know hunters who reload just for hunting.

They shoot just basic reloads. They find a load that looks interesting in a load book and put it together. At most they might clean the primer pockets once every couple of reloads. One of them brings all of his old brass over to me every couple of years to run through my vibrator cleaner.

All he does is run the case through the sizing die that resizes, decaps the primer, and expands the neck to the proper dimensions. He then dumps the powder in from a old case that he has measured for the correct amount of powder and brazed a handle onto it. He'll then seat the bullet. Nothing fancy but he kills deer and elk every year with his loads. The only thing that he really changed up was that he now uses a Lee Primer tool to seat the primers.

Are his loads the best that they can be? I have no idea but he kills animals with them every year.

This is all I did when I started loading in the early eighties, if the cases got too dirty, they got a vinegar wash. Used a old herters press and C&H dies and a scoop my grandad help me make..he had a old scale. I load a lot different now, then I did then, but I killed animals then and still do, just went down the rabbit hole a bit further is all.

 

[Ridge Runner]

This is all I did when I started loading in the early eighties, if the cases got too dirty, they got a vinegar wash. Used a old herters press and C&H dies and a scoop my grandad help me make..he had a old scale. I load a lot different now, then I did then, but I killed animals then and still do, just went down the rabbit hole a bit further is all.

I'm sure a lot of us have changed since we first started. We've added better equipment, gained an abundance of knowledge, etc. to impove ourselves and our quality to reload.

 

[Boone66]

I'm sure a lot of us have changed since we first started. We've added better equipment, gained an abundance of knowledge, etc. to impove ourselves and our quality to reload.

I load and modify a lot of obsolete cartridges as well as wildcats now. Unfortunately, I sold both my Herters rifle and shotgun presses and moved on to RCBS, Hollywood, Dillon for rifle and pistol And Lee and Hornady for shotgun, as well as the antique hand loads and roll crimper. As normal, everyone says I have too much crap, until they need some oddball thing loaded

 

[SaintPanzer]

FWIW, there is an article going into details on exactly this topic in the March 2024 issue of American Rifleman.

 

[John the Electrician]

FWIW, there is an article going into details on exactly this topic in the March 2024 issue of American Rifleman.

Thank you, I will check it out.

John

 

[PHOENIX PHIL]

@Philip Glass
If you can afford it now days.

Or find it.

 

[Vintageguy]

Reloading is definitely something that people approach differently,in minor ways mostly, depending on their purpose.
Nowadays I would recommend resources such as Hornady with their instructions and they have a very good podcast on YouTube.
I first learned from an individual who gave me some very bad advice and later from another who specifically loaded for both bench and long range competition.
Things like “chase the lands” and wasting time with 1/10th grain increments, seating the bullet and rotating 180 degrees and seating again. All things that we’re everything from unnecessary to dangerous for the purposes I load for.
I target shoot recreationally and hunt. If I load for targets and especially if I’m loading for one of my M1’s I don’t clean/tumble my brass nor do I clean the primer pocket because I’m loading in bulk and I can honestly say I have never had a misfire or over pressure issue with any of my hand loads. I can’t say the same about factory loads. I had factory rounds not fire and witnessed a friend’s rifle explode upon firing as he was target shooting and had just punched the target with the previous round when a factory Winchester round split the stock of his new bolt rifle to the pad and blew gas into his face. Fortunately he had glasses on.
I load everything to whatever bullet manual’s C.O.A.L. because I get great groups with component combinations without all the tweaking of seating depth.
For hunting loads I painstakingly clean cases, primer pockets, and hand measure each charge.
For dangerous game loads I splurge and use only new unfired brass and again hand measure every charge. I do always feel the primer to insure that it is seated completely, dished feel with finger tip, on all my loads, target and hunting.
I only work also in half grain increments as my experience and the testing of the guys at Hornady shows any finer increments show diminished returns.
I like reloading as it allows me to save a little and craft precisely what I want. It is satisfying to have a rifle shooting 2 inch plus groups and after a little load work it’s cutting the same hole.
You can go down many rabbit holes and some are appropriate for different purposes and others are just because someone was shown that. These are mine. I’ve been reloading 40 years plus but only feel like the last 25 have been the ones where I settled on what I need/prefer to do. The biggest advantage today is the vast and credible info available by just a search that I didn’t have when I started.

 

[WyoBull]

Since the late 1970’s when I started reloading, I have always deprimed and size in the same step. I use RCBS full length dies. I now use homemade case lube so I will lightly spray my cases before resizing and depriming.
After this step I will measure case length and then trim if necessary.
Next I will clean the primer pockets and chamfer the inside and outside of the brass.
I typically only clean my brass after the 3rd loading.
The next steps are seating me primers, weighing each pan of powder and seating the bullet.
I load for all of the different calibers I shoot so my dies are already set for the right seating depth for the bullet I use. The only time I have to change that up is if I am developing a new load. But, I have always made up a dummy round for each of the bullets I shoot so if I change my seating die I can easily go back and readjust it to a different bullet very quickly.

 

[Scanos]

I am glad you started this thread. As a dedicated reloader who hunts only with reloads, for me reloading is all part of the joy of hunting. Hunting with my rifle, my chosen bullet, powder and primer gives me the ultimate control over the process and extends my hunting season into the off-season when I work up loads. You have received good advice on primer pocket cleaning so I won't repeat what many have said. One thing I do a little different is that I work up my loads with used brass. However, I load and hunt dangerous game with fresh brass only. That can be difficult for some rarer calibers but it has always helped me reduce variables when it really counts.

 

[112Savage]

I think as with all forums, you have to sift through and find what works for you. There are people giving good advice even though it may not be applicable to YOU.

Here is my experience:
I hate tumbling brass!
I don’t like cleaning or reaming primer pockets- an article on accurate shooter showed that this really doesn’t change accuracy.
I wipe cases after sizing- I recently found a 50:50 mix of ATF and acetone will take stubborn carbon off of cases very easily. I shoot suppressed a lot and gas guns make brass
terribly dirty.
I only trim brass when I have to, and that’s the only time I chamfer the case mouth.
Using “only virgin brass” can also cause misfires (hornady 9.3x62 brass can be bad about having short shoulders).
I don’t “chase the lands”

I do:
Full brass prep including deburring flash holes on new brass
Full length size almost all brass except belted mags- I also always set up my dies using a hornady case comparator rather than following the directions in the pamphlet
Weigh each and every charge
Seat bullets as I charge them
Optimize powder and bullet selection for the intended purpose of the load
I check to make sure primers are seated flush or below flush with the pocket.

Once you’ve reloaded a ton of ammo, you’ll see things that you have to do to remain consistent and reliable.
The biggest thing that still makes me chase my tail is getting consistent neck tension as the brass ages. Annealing every time will solve this at a great expense in money and time.

 

[Rare Breed]

Since the late 1970’s when I started reloading, I have always deprimed and size in the same step. I use RCBS full length dies. I now use homemade case lube so I will lightly spray my cases before resizing and depriming.
After this step I will measure case length and then trim if necessary.
Next I will clean the primer pockets and chamfer the inside and outside of the brass.
I typically only clean my brass after the 3rd loading.
The next steps are seating me primers, weighing each pan of powder and seating the bullet.
I load for all of the different calibers I shoot so my dies are already set for the right seating depth for the bullet I use. The only time I have to change that up is if I am developing a new load. But, I have always made up a dummy round for each of the bullets I shoot so if I change my seating die I can easily go back and readjust it to a different bullet very quickly.

I do exactly what you do in the order that you do it. Interesting 0 problems with any of my hand loads over the years. Just last year in Zim I had a problem with Federal Premium loaded ammo in my 375 and later practicing. I now only trust my own hand loads given i am so careful on each and every bullet

 

[WyoBull]

I do exactly what you do in the order that you do it. Interesting 0 problems with any of my hand loads over the years. Just last year in Zim I had a problem with Federal Premium loaded ammo in my 375 and later practicing. I now only trust my own hand loads given i am so careful on each and every bullet

I am with you on this, Rare Breed. I trust my hand loads more than factory because I know the steps I go through to get it done and it is definitely not high volume manufacturing.
My 375 H&H with Barnes 300 gr TSX hand loads performed flawlessly last summer on my Buffalo and Crocodile. And, my 7mm RUM shooting Barnes 160 gr TSX hand loads performed the same on my previous plains game hunt.
I have just never had a problem with my hand loads, probably because when I started 45 years ago, safety and process consistency was drilled into me by the guy who taught me how to reload.

 

[m457109]

Having loaded and 10’s of thousands of rounds over the last 40 years, I would say follow the KIS method (keep it simple), at least in the beginning. I have never experienced a misfire with handloaded ammo. Cannot say the same for factory loaded. I hardly ever clean primer pockets, although I do inspect them and will clean if there is a chance that something will obstruct the flash hole. As others have stated, develop a process that works for you and stick to it. I rarely put my brass in a tumbler and didn’t own one the first 20 years I reloaded…not necessary but makes ammo prettier. Just wipe the cases with a rag and you are good to go. One thing I do is keep track of virgin brass loads and once fire brass loads. All hunting loads are assembled in virgin or once fired brass. After that, I trim as needed, and will continue loading a case until the primer pocket starts to get loose. I also make sure all rounds that I take hunting function through the action and chamber properly. I have no issue using hand loads for dangerous game, because I know my quality control at my reloading bench is 1000x better than quality control on mass produced ammunition. Learn the basics (as stated above, read a manual cover to cover) and you will be producing safe, accurate ammunition in no time. Once you have the basics, you’ll find 1000’s of reloading rabbit holes you can go down if you choose to.
Best of luck and hope you enjoy the hobby.

After re-reading the above, I don’t want it to seem like you should just haphazardly throw things together. I am very methodical and meticulous in my process, I have just discovered over the years that a lot of the “rabbit holes “ are unnecessary and don’t make a difference for hunting ammunition. You will have to become your own judge of what makes a difference for you and your guns as you gain experience.