Best Caliber for Tiny 10?

[Scrumbag]

It is all about the bullet. If your rifle will accurately manage a tough 70 gr bullet, you would likely be fine for most of them. I have a South African friend who swears by solids from his .22 Hornet - of course that is a whole different level of velocity. A 55 gr bullet likely would be explosive on a blue duiker, suni, or dik dik. If the 55 stayed inside a common duiker or oribi for instance, all would be well. If it exited, you would be trying to salvage a shoulder mount. My little Sako shoots 55's beautifully. On coyotes, about a third exit. The exit wound is dramatic. Two out of three would not be a good hand with trophy fees involved.

I would agree bullet construction is very important.

Nosler make a 70gr Accubond that might work well and as I mentioned the 65gr Sierra Softs, 60gr Nosler Partition and the 62 gr Federal Fusion.

I think it is important to realise that for these small deer / antelope you cannot use "varmint" bullets. A light, fast driven varmint bullet does lots of damage on the entry side if you hit a solid bone like the shoulder - Might not even get into the chest cavity.

Scrummy

 

[Scrumbag]

A quick word on drillings.

The ones I have shot and handled (When I lived in Continental Europe)

9.3x74r with 2 x 12b barrels tend to be awfully heavy and I don't find well balanced.

Nicer (in my view) would be something like 7x65r and 2 x 16b barrels.

I have shot quite a few muntjac with my 7x64 and a 165gr RNSP at ~2,675fps and the damage is quite acceptable.

Scrummy

 

[bruce moulds]

whatever bullet you use you must select and place the shot to suit.
a 50 gn ballistic tip varmint in the ribs will kill small game very effectively and suddenly, with only a bullet hole on the inlet side.
in the front of the chest will also kill like dynamite with a perfect skin..
a 17 cal 25 gn bullet just below the eyes will blow up the nose into the brainpan for instant death.
the same bullet behind the ear will not come out, leaving a good skin.
the same bullet between the eye and the ear side on will drop this sized animal too.
bruce.

 

[Fastrig]

Drillings (three barrels) and Bockbuchsflinte (Shotgun over rifle) can be extremely accurate. I believe it must have something to do with the rigidity of the rifle barrel. I don't believe that I have ever had one that wasn't MOA. If shooting a group, it is important to let them cool after a couple of shots. The heating barrel will affect accuracy.

The one below is fairly old school. It is a Franz Kettner drilling and has German rather than Austrian proof marks with a date code indicating it was built in just after WWI. It is chambered in 16x16 / 8x57JR. It is a lovely light thing with rebounding hammers.

View attachment 361757

The second is one that I have hunted with a great deal. It is a guild drilling, meaning it was built by an unknown master German gunmaker. The date code on this one indicates it was built in 1933. It too is 16 x 16 / 8x57JR. I used it quite a bit in the decade we lived in Northern Virginia.

View attachment 361758

The third has been to Africa twice and has accounted for cape buffalo and a lion - sadly not in my hands. If any of you follow "Under Wild Skies" the buffalo and lion hunts were featured there some years ago. It is a very special sort of thing thing because it is a double rifle drilling in 9.3x74R x 9.3x74R x 16, and because it is a spectacular bit of craftsmanship. It too is a guild gun and was made by an unknown German master gunmaker. With solids, it would handle the little guys, and a shot at a larger animal would be just a reload away.

View attachment 361759

The last is the one I may take for a specialized night critter hunt one day. To make @BeeMaa happy, it is a 20 bore over .22 Savage High Power. It might be just the thing for the little cats, and like all of these, it would work on most of the Tiny 10.

View attachment 361760

These guns are something of a specialty all their own. But for the Tiny 10 or a dedicated hunt for the small cats or brown hyena, they might prove close to ideal.

Those are positively Magnificent guns!! Absolute beauties!! Thanks for sharing!!!!! The one with the hammers is amazing.

This has me looking more closely at one of these style guns, sure my wife would like to say “thank you”....though you would get an eye roll included with that

 

[IvW]

Gotta agree with Red Legs, 12 bore over 20 bore. .223 Rem not a bad choice. Wonder how that 12 would pair with a 308 win? Either calibers would work, though would think a 308 win would be a bit more versatile for larger game that might present themselves. Plus, if tiny ten hunting favors slower velocity rounds, then the 308 is clearly a better choice over the .223, at least if I'm understanding the posts in this thread.

Just bought my daughter that combination recently. 12ga/306Win.......180-200gr Rhino bullet and Bobs your uncle.....

 

[IvW]

whatever bullet you use you must select and place the shot to suit.
a 50 gn ballistic tip varmint in the ribs will kill small game very effectively and suddenly, with only a bullet hole on the inlet side.
in the front of the chest will also kill like dynamite with a perfect skin..
a 17 cal 25 gn bullet just below the eyes will blow up the nose into the brainpan for instant death.
the same bullet behind the ear will not come out, leaving a good skin.
the same bullet between the eye and the ear side on will drop this sized animal too.
bruce.

How many of the Tiny ten have you hunted with these combinations and suggestions?

Ballistic tips, 17 cal 25gr bullets, below the eyes, behind the ear are not normal tactics for these.......

 

[bruce moulds]

ivw,
i have hunted none of them.
but i have killed a lot of similar sized animals using those guns/bullets, for meat and/or skins.
from foxes, dingos, goats small and large, kangaroos,up to fallow deer.
somewhere in that mix is something similar to tint 10 sized game.
the 17 requires absolute shot placement, whereas the 223 is a bit more forgiving.
i also shot a lot of goats with a 25/06 and 87 gn bullets for skins, but it can be a bit too much gun for skins on smaller goats.
normal tactics as you mention does not mean it would not work.
it does, as hundreds of animals proves.
if i ever can afford to get to africa, i would hunt the tiny 10 with the 223 and 50 gn ballistic tips quite happily, and hope my hunter would protect me from big things.
bruce.

 

[Red Leg]

whatever bullet you use you must select and place the shot to suit.
a 50 gn ballistic tip varmint in the ribs will kill small game very effectively and suddenly, with only a bullet hole on the inlet side.
in the front of the chest will also kill like dynamite with a perfect skin..
a 17 cal 25 gn bullet just below the eyes will blow up the nose into the brainpan for instant death.
the same bullet behind the ear will not come out, leaving a good skin.
the same bullet between the eye and the ear side on will drop this sized animal too.
bruce.

ivw,
i have hunted none of them.
but i have killed a lot of similar sized animals using those guns/bullets, for meat and/or skins.
from foxes, dingos, goats small and large, kangaroos,up to fallow deer.
somewhere in that mix is something similar to tint 10 sized game.
the 17 requires absolute shot placement, whereas the 223 is a bit more forgiving.
i also shot a lot of goats with a 25/06 and 87 gn bullets for skins, but it can be a bit too much gun for skins on smaller goats.
normal tactics as you mention does not mean it would not work.
it does, as hundreds of animals proves.
if i ever can afford to get to africa, i would hunt the tiny 10 with the 223 and 50 gn ballistic tips quite happily, and hope my hunter would protect me from big things.
bruce.

Any .17 that I have been around would be like a grenade going off in the head of a blue duiker, Suni, or dik dik - assuming you could hit it. We are talking skulls as small or smaller than a house cat. I wouldn’t attempt such a shot in any case on any of the others even if it did work.

I guess I should have said 50/55. I am pretty sure a 50 gr .223 ballistic tip would cut a blue duiker, dik dik, or Suni in half, and I have used the 5,56/.223 a bit as well. I would guess on an oribi, red duiker, or steenbok, you would have a somewhat better than 50/50 chance of not having an explosive exit wound. I don’t like those odds on an animal carrying a meaningful trophy fee.

Based on my experience, in a .223, a tough heavy for cal bullet is the way to go. Two small holes.

 

[bruce moulds]

the 17 mach 1v will stay in a cats head.
the skull will be in pieces, but the skin will be unmarked.
blood might come out the ears and nose.
the 17 rem will be too much for such a shot.
bullet placement is of paramount importance.
small young goats (kids) chests will hold a 223 50 gn bullet, and they are fragile and not big.
the 223 will blow a hole out of a cat or fox.
in the fox skin days guys with 222 rems used 22 magnum projectiles successfully.
small animals and skins is really about surgical precision rather than blasting away and is a specialized way of hunting.
of interest is shooting cats with a 17 mach 1v.
they often present only a texas heart shot.
the bullet kills instantly, but never goes further than the stomach.
a messy skinning job!
small calibres that go through small game often produce lost wounded game, so bullet placement is also important.
sierra used to have a hard 60 gn bullet meant for deer that might suit a 223 with a slower twist if still available.
in the end you have to suck it and see.
it id just that in oz many guys have tended to use 222 and later 223 for almost anything, so we get a chance to see the results.
and in the fox days there were many 17s in service, which had their barrels stretched for other jobs as well.
each to their own, and you have had more experience in africa than my nil experience.
bruce.

 

[norfolk shooter]

how about one of these

They also make it in a 60m https://www.chedditeitaly.it/category/products/hunting-shotshells/long-range-eng/?lang=en

 

[Philip Glass]

Have only shot a Steenbok out of the Tiny 10 and that was with my PHs .30-06. Hit him at the back of the ribs and had quite a bit of guts hanging out. Shot a porcupine (probably thicker than the T10 critters) with a borrowed.223 and damage was minimal. Hard to say what the “best” caliber is. I like @Philip Glass setup!

Thanks @Ragman
Lots of opinions here but little experience. Sorry to say.
Philip

 

[HWL]

Thanks @Ragman
Lots of opinions here but little experience. Sorry to say.
Philip

Is a .222/223Rem, .22Savage combination with a 12/20ga shotgun barrel really wrong for this job?

I have shot more than thousand of the little european reh deer, 7-22 kg cleaned, and it works great.

Distances 5m - 250 m....

We regorously prepare all the little trophies.... we go for meat & trophy!... nothing is thrown away.

HWL

 

[Philip Glass]

It is all about the bullet. If your rifle will accurately manage a tough 70 gr bullet, you would likely be fine for most of them. I have a South African friend who swears by solids from his .22 Hornet - of course that is a whole different level of velocity. A 55 gr bullet likely would be explosive on a blue duiker, suni, or dik dik. If the 55 stayed inside a common duiker or oribi for instance, all would be well. If it exited, you would be trying to salvage a shoulder mount. My little Sako shoots 55's beautifully. On coyotes, about a third exit. The exit wound is dramatic. Two out of three would not be a good hand with trophy fees involved.

55’s in my Ruger 5.56 leave nothing but a mess. I shot my Red Duiker with the Barnes 70gr and there was but a small exit hole. Most of the Tiny’s will not be long range so if the rifle shoots the 70gr well at 100 yards thall is good.
Interesting side note: the Ruger Ranch is 5.56 so I made sure my ammo boxes were 5.56. This was not a problem as the Barnes ammo I was using was 5.56. Just one of those things to make sure of when traveling to a foreign country with a gun.
Sorry to go on and on but my setup is brilliant, proven and I know I can recommend it.
Philip

 

[Philip Glass]

Is a .222/223Rem, .22Savage combination with a 12/20ga shotgun barrel really wrong for this job?

I have shot more than thousand of the little european reh deer, 7-22 kg cleaned, and it works great.

Distances 5m - 250 m....

We regorously prepare all the little trophies.... we go for meat & trophy!... nothing is thrown away.

HWL

Are you advocating taking an O/U 223/ 12 gauge to Africa? I am advocating a .223 (Mine is 5.56 though) for his job with 70gr bullets to do less damage. I think we agree on that? It seems?
What I am explaining is that I can shoot a tiny fox with little damage then hammer the largest exotic deer in Texas with the Barnes 70gr. I’ve done the same in Africa and have not found any better way to do it. I am amazed at this setup and hope others try it!
Philip

 

[shark_za]

There are two ways to hunt the Tiny 10, as a side thing using your main rifle or to bring a dedicated rifle for it.
If you are going to bring a dedicated rifle then don't mess around with high velocity .22's. Bring a 6,5 Grendel, a 7.62x39 or even a 30-30 with 170gr bullets will do well.

 

[fourfive8]

Absolute answers are usually incomplete in that they need to be prefaced and qualified. IF you reload the sky is literally the limit for choices that will work well. If you don't reload then the choices become very limited and none may be ideal. For instance: one of the most common, small caliber rounds like the 223 would, on the surface, seem potentially a very good choice for the purpose. BUT I will guarantee, shoot one of the little animals with a factory round going 3000 fps +/-, no matter the bullet, and expect a mess. Reload that same combination down to maybe 1700 fps especially with a heavy or tough bullet and you will likely do little or no damage. Same rifle, same cartridge but different load--- completely different results.

 

[HWL]

Are you advocating taking an O/U 223/ 12 gauge to Africa? I am advocating a .223 (Mine is 5.56 though) for his job with 70gr bullets to do less damage. I think we agree on that? It seems?
What I am explaining is that I can shoot a tiny fox with little damage then hammer the largest exotic deer in Texas with the Barnes 70gr. I’ve done the same in Africa and have not found any better way to do it. I am amazed at this setup and hope others try it!
Philip

Yes, we agree....

I do not have any experience with the 70 gr Barnes, because my gun will not stabilize this bullet.

But I have some experiences with the .228 dia. 5,6x52R, that delivers a 70 gr/4,5g Soft Point.

It's a Drilling with 16 ga shotgun barrels.

.....love this, because there often is an opportunity for a shotgun too.... and in the case of emergency, one can load it with slugs!

All this tiny animals do not need big bullets, but "small" premium bullets and good shot placement.


HWL

 

[Scrumbag]

Absolute answers are usually incomplete in that they need to be prefaced and qualified. IF you reload the sky is literally the limit for choices that will work well. If you don't reload then the choices become very limited and none may be ideal. For instance: one of the most common, small caliber rounds like the 223 would, on the surface, seem potentially a very good choice for the purpose. BUT I will guarantee, shoot one of the little animals with a factory round going 3000 fps +/-, no matter the bullet, and expect a mess. Reload that same combination down to maybe 1700 fps especially with a heavy or tough bullet and you will likely do little or no damage. Same rifle, same cartridge but different load--- completely different results.

This is what I have found with muntjac. I would not rely on something with a ballistic tip but a good softpoint might well work for the Tiny 10

Federal seem to have gotten onto the idea of a .223 Deer bullet well.

Factory wise Hornady load:

60gr Nosler Partition
62gr Trophy Bonded
62gr Fusion

Hornady do a 75gr Interlock which they advertise for Short Barrelled Rifles so could be interesting as a relatively tough bullet going not too fast.

Swift do a 75gr Scirocco which apparently leaves the muzzle at less that 2,700 fps

Winchester have 3 64gr Offerings
Power Max
Super X Powercore
Extreme Point

As I have said before, I have had good success with the Federal Fusion 62 gr on our smallest deer, the muntjac.

I have not yet seen any load data for the 70gr Accubond as yet. I'm guessing Nosler intended this for the 22 Nosler which is a lot punchier than a 223 Rem (Think more like a .22-250 in an AR-15 length case)

Scrummy

 

[Certus]

If you wanna go classic what about a 6.5x54 with the 160gr bullets? I can’t imagine them expanding much nor putting a large hole in.

 

[Philip Glass]

Absolute answers are usually incomplete in that they need to be prefaced and qualified. IF you reload the sky is literally the limit for choices that will work well. If you don't reload then the choices become very limited and none may be ideal. For instance: one of the most common, small caliber rounds like the 223 would, on the surface, seem potentially a very good choice for the purpose. BUT I will guarantee, shoot one of the little animals with a factory round going 3000 fps +/-, no matter the bullet, and expect a mess. Reload that same combination down to maybe 1700 fps especially with a heavy or tough bullet and you will likely do little or no damage. Same rifle, same cartridge but different load--- completely different results.

What I am using is the Barnes 70gr going 2850 and no problems. I attribute it to the Barnes bullet being a harder bullet and just does not do the damage on the smaller ones. I know it sounds strange but I've done it over and over with excellent success.