best bolt action for dangerous games

[One Day...]

Let me illustrate, using some additional AutoCAD sketches (not to scale)

This is completely different from what happens during ejection:

One also needs to realize that some actions are designed from the inception to allow the extractor to jump the rim. This is the case of the more recent CRF Winchester 70:

Whether beveling the extractor on a military Mauser (or clone), or cutting a relief in the right raceway inside the front bridge as in a Winchester 70, either of which create the space for the extractor to jump the rim of a cartridge inserted directly in the chamber, is an “improvement” on the Mauser design because it supposedly allows to perform an emergency single reload faster, is a matter of personal judgement.

Mauser aficionados disagree because:

1) A hurried reload is generally faster when clicking a cartridge in the magazine because dropping a cartridge on top of the magazine, or inserting it directly in the barrel by hand, is generally slower because it often results in catching the tip of the bullet on the rear edge of the chamber, especially with truncated solids... especially in a rush... especially in movement... especially under pressure...

2) Allowing the extractor to jump the rim of a cartridge in the chamber defeats the very purpose of the Mauser system extractor, by:

2a- making it possible for the extractor to also jump the rim when the action is opened, hence creating the potential for extraction failure: if there is space for the extractor to jump the rim when closing the bolt, this space continues to exist for the extractor to jump the rim when opening the bolt;​

​

2b- making it possible to close the bolt on a cartridge unknowingly left in the chamber, hence creating the potential for an accidental discharge. I personally know a PH who witnessed such an accident, which resulted in a woman getting killed.​

What makes the controlled round feeding (CRF) and external extractor of the Mauser system unique is that they precisely make it physically impossible for the extractor to jump the rim and fail to extract, or load the rifle accidentally.

Removing these features essentially converts the Mauser action to just another derivation of a push feed system as even a big external claw extractor, unsupported by the wall of the front bridge, has neither more nor less chances to fail to extract than any other extractor design.

I hope this helps understand the Mauser system, and the pros & cons of modifying it

 

[Clodo Ferreira]

Hi One Day,

Cannot be better explained! Agree in toto!

 

[ChrisG]

Let me illustrate, using some additional AutoCAD sketches (not to scale)

View attachment 501295

This is completely different from what happens during ejection:

View attachment 501285

One also needs to realize that some actions are designed from the inception to allow the extractor to jump the rim. This is the case of the more recent CRF Winchester 70:

View attachment 501288

Whether beveling the extractor on a military Mauser (or clone), or cutting a relief in the right raceway inside the front bridge as in a Winchester 70, either of which create the space for the extractor to jump the rim of a cartridge inserted directly in the chamber, is an “improvement” on the Mauser design because it supposedly allows to perform an emergency single reload faster, is a matter of personal judgement.

Mauser aficionados disagree because:

1) A hurried reload is generally faster when clicking a cartridge in the magazine because dropping a cartridge on top of the magazine, or inserting it directly in the barrel by hand, is generally slower because it often results in catching the tip of the bullet on the rear edge of the chamber, especially with truncated solids... especially in a rush... especially in movement... especially under pressure...

2) Allowing the extractor to jump the rim of a cartridge in the chamber defeats the very purpose of the Mauser system extractor, by:

2a- making it possible for the extractor to also jump the rim when the action is opened, hence creating the potential for extraction failure: if there is space for the extractor to jump the rim when closing the bolt, this space continues to exist for the extractor to jump the rim when opening the bolt;​

​

2b- making it possible to close the bolt on a cartridge unknowingly left in the chamber, hence creating the potential for an accidental discharge. I personally know a PH who witnessed such an accident, which resulted in a woman getting killed.​

What makes the controlled round feeding (CRF) and external extractor of the Mauser system unique is that they precisely make it physically impossible for the extractor to jump the rim and fail to extract, or load the rifle accidentally.

Removing these features essentially converts the Mauser action to just another derivation of a push feed system as even a big external claw extractor, unsupported by the wall of the front bridge, has neither more nor less chances to fail to extract than any other extractor design.

I hope this helps understand the Mauser system, and the pros & cons of modifying it

This is exceptionally well explained and demonstrates a much more complete understanding of how a Mauser extractor works than I have. The old adage, "you don't know what you don't know" definitely rings true. I definitely learned something!

 

[Christian Davis]

Let me illustrate, using some additional AutoCAD sketches (not to scale)

View attachment 501295

This is completely different from what happens during ejection:

View attachment 501285

One also needs to realize that some actions are designed from the inception to allow the extractor to jump the rim. This is the case of the more recent CRF Winchester 70:

View attachment 501288

Whether beveling the extractor on a military Mauser (or clone), or cutting a relief in the right raceway inside the front bridge as in a Winchester 70, either of which create the space for the extractor to jump the rim of a cartridge inserted directly in the chamber, is an “improvement” on the Mauser design because it supposedly allows to perform an emergency single reload faster, is a matter of personal judgement.

Mauser aficionados disagree because:

1) A hurried reload is generally faster when clicking a cartridge in the magazine because dropping a cartridge on top of the magazine, or inserting it directly in the barrel by hand, is generally slower because it often results in catching the tip of the bullet on the rear edge of the chamber, especially with truncated solids... especially in a rush... especially in movement... especially under pressure...

2) Allowing the extractor to jump the rim of a cartridge in the chamber defeats the very purpose of the Mauser system extractor, by:

2a- making it possible for the extractor to also jump the rim when the action is opened, hence creating the potential for extraction failure: if there is space for the extractor to jump the rim when closing the bolt, this space continues to exist for the extractor to jump the rim when opening the bolt;​

​

2b- making it possible to close the bolt on a cartridge unknowingly left in the chamber, hence creating the potential for an accidental discharge. I personally know a PH who witnessed such an accident, which resulted in a woman getting killed.​

What makes the controlled round feeding (CRF) and external extractor of the Mauser system unique is that they precisely make it physically impossible for the extractor to jump the rim and fail to extract, or load the rifle accidentally.

Removing these features essentially converts the Mauser action to just another derivation of a push feed system as even a big external claw extractor, unsupported by the wall of the front bridge, has neither more nor less chances to fail to extract than any other extractor design.

I hope this helps understand the Mauser system, and the pros & cons of modifying it

In your experience, which failure is most common for the beveled extractor: breaking, or jumping the rim on extraction? They seem to be nearly opposite failures. I.e. if the extractor breaks, then it did not jump the rim, and vice versa.

Also, does this type of failure happen regularly on loads of normal pressure? If an overpressure cartridge is is so stuck in the chamber that the bolt handle has to be beaten with a hammer, as has been described, whether the extractor breaks or not is nearly irrelevant, as far as the hunting situation is concerned.

Regarding the unintentional chambering of a round: sport hunters thankfully are not a conscript peasant army, and should treat firearms as though they are always loaded, being aware of muzzle direction, etc. Consequently I doubt whether the non beveled extractor will greatly enhance either the safety of an otherwise safe, or as the case may be, unsafe firearm user.

Thanks to all for your knowledge and contribution to any enjoyable discussion!

 

[Hunting Hitman]

So on my GMA rifles I normally load the bullets in the magazine and then place one in the chamber pushing down on the bullets to close the bolt. Am I damaging my bolt face by doing this?

HH

 

[One Day...]

In your experience, which failure is most common for the beveled extractor: breaking, or jumping the rim on extraction? They seem to be nearly opposite failures. I.e. if the extractor breaks, then it did not jump the rim, and vice versa.

Also, does this type of failure happen regularly on loads of normal pressure? If an overpressure cartridge is is so stuck in the chamber that the bolt handle has to be beaten with a hammer, as has been described, whether the extractor breaks or not is nearly irrelevant, as far as the hunting situation is concerned.

Regarding the unintentional chambering of a round: sport hunters thankfully are not a conscript peasant army, and should treat firearms as though they are always loaded, being aware of muzzle direction, etc. Consequently I doubt whether the non beveled extractor will greatly enhance either the safety of an otherwise safe, or as the case may be, unsafe firearm user.

Thanks to all for your knowledge and contribution to any enjoyable discussion!

For what I have seen, including the early mistakes I have done myself , and I will hasten to say that I only have a very limited experience compared to folks whose job it is to work with (e.g. gunsmiths) or around (e.g. PHs) rifles, the failures are:

1- In the case of not understanding at all, or even knowing, the CRF design, it is possible -- although, I would guess, difficult -- to simply break the extractor hook by attempting to forcibly close the bolt. I have seen this with at least one rifle that was in pretty bad condition (spring steel easily looses its mechanical properties when oxidized i.e. rusted) and in the hands of a guy who was not very subtle ("dang kraut piece of crap, pass me the hammer to turn that bolt"). I would say that this scenario is likely unimaginable with the folks on AH

2- In the case when the beveling was done by someone who did not understand the dynamics at play, as was occasionally illustrated in this thread, and material was erroneously removed from the front of the extractor, it can take removing almost all the extractor hook, progressively in successive frustrated attempts, until what is left of the extractor hook finally manages to slide sideways past the rim. At that stage, there is little extractor engagement and it can easily slide past the rim on the way out, just as it did on its way in. Or, if what is left of the extractor hook is too thin, it can break when the action is closed and it is pushed hard on the rim before jumping it. There is no fix, the extractor needs to be changed. This was a very classic example of failure, in the early home-"fixed" military Mausers with folks wanting to be able to load one more round in the chamber after the magazine was full, and thinking that their extractor was too big ("you know, loose war-time military tolerances and no hand finishing, need to do the extractor adjustment myself that they did not take the time to do").

I expect that this would be very rare nowadays unless on a vintage rifle, or on a home project by a neophyte having more enthusiasm than knowledge.

Note: the correct way to load one more round, is the push down the cartridge that will go directly into the chamber as far down as it can go in the magazine -- it will not go into the magazine fully but generally even on a full magazine it can be pushed down halfway or at least a third of the way -- and move the bolts forward with the right hand while maintaining the cartridge half way down the magazine with the left thumb, so that the cartridge can slide under the extractor and be carried into the chamber, normal CRF way, as opposed to be pushed into the chamber. ​

​

Note: for a single rapid reload, just click the cartridge in the magazine, it is generally faster than trying to align it with the axis of the bore to clear the chamber rear edges, and it cannot fall on the ground while moving, as a cartridge just dropped on top of the magazine can. ​

3- In the case when the beveling was done -- I am tempted to say "correctly", but I do not believe that it is correct to bevel a Mauser extractor -- by removing material from the top of the extractor, the classic failure is at the torsion point as illustrated in the CAD sketches. This is the most common failure with the type of folks on AH who are generally not taking a hammer or a grinder to their DG rifles, and whose extractor is generally as it came from the factory or the shop, where, presumably, it was adjusted by professionals.

The problem with this, is that it is impossible to predict if the extractor will break at the 10th, 100th, or 1,000th closing of the bolt over a cartridge in the chamber. In the good old days in the French Alps when even in the 70's there were cases upon cases on 7.92 (ooops! European denomination, I must say "8 mm Mauser" here in the US) left from the German troops retreat if you knew whom to ask, you could get to 1,000 rounds pretty quickly. With a .458 in the US, most folks will likely not get there in their adult lifetime...

And of course, the extractor may never break, because it all depends on how much material was removed from the extractors by a careful and caring worker who carefully took out 1/2 millimeter at a time and ended up removing just the minimum, or by an unconcerned worker who took a big chunk out of it once just to make it work the first time. And, maybe more importantly, it also depends on how much tolerances exist on both that specific bolt and that specific receiver, which can vary widely, especially in actions made behind the iron curtain, or on machinery dating from that era (e.g. the classic discussion of CZ actions being rough, full of tool markings, and, for those a little more in the know, all over the place in term of machining tolerances).

Pressure?

To the best of my knowledge, none of the above has anything to do with load pressure, and yes indeed, in my experience with overpressure (specifically a MK13 rifle with Remington Defense action and .300 Win 5R barrel mounted on an Accuracy International chassis, in which the factory 190 gr Black Hill Match load stuck) it took a rubber mallet and some vigor to open the action, and I was darn lucky not to shear off the brazed bolt handle. Interestingly, the much maligned Remington extractor did not fail what must have been way, way, way above specs extraction tests (I fired a few shots to verify whether it was a single round fluke or a systemic problem, which it was).

Accidental / negligent discharges...

Oh, it happens... Over the course of 40 years of shooting, I have seen it with my own eyes on a military shooting range, on a civilian shooting range, and just this year in Africa. And I have a good friend PH who witnessed with his own eyes a woman being killed by one a few years ago. And it is not difficult to find PHs who have been shot or nearly missed by their clients; they are more numerous than folks think...

We all agree "sport hunters thankfully are not a conscript peasant army, and should treat firearms as though they are always loaded, being aware of muzzle direction, etc." but, right, wrong (in this case!), or indifferent, it is patent that not all of them do...

So, yes, I will take any and all additional risk-mitigating possible precautions, and I do believe that "non beveled extractor will greatly enhance either the safety of an otherwise safe, or as the case may be, unsafe firearm user", just as I have an immense appreciation for a Blaser or Krieghoff separate cocking mechanism.

In summary, some of the beveled extractors may never break; some may break tomorrow; and some may break -- of course! -- the one time in life when you finally faces a Buff... Hard to say...

What to do? I personally looked very carefully at the extractors as they came on the Mauser system rifles I purchased.

With surplus rifles bought as action donors, generally they are at military spec (hence, good) if they have not been "sporterized". If they have been "worked" on by bubbasmiths, just stay away from them...​

​

With custom rifles, or rifles based on a military action or an early FN action bought from true gun shops with true gunsmiths on staff I simply used to state that I did not want a beveled extractor, and I did not get one.​

​

With Santa Barbara, Zastava, etc. (and their myriads commercial importers: Parker Hale, Whitworth, Interarms, etc. even Remington at a time), ZKK and CZ actions/rifles etc. I looked at the extractors carefully and ended up replacing preemptively a couple.​

​

With modern Winchester 70, they are manufactured with a cutout in the right raceway which allows the entire extractor to move when jumping the rim (see CAD sketch in previous post). The risk of breaking the extractor is low. Likely very low.​

​

With Winchester 70 clones (e.g. Dakota, Montana, Kimber, etc.), I never owned one, so I am not sure and I will not guess.​

The nice thing is that it is still easy to find original military extractors (Google) if you have a military Mauser or a close clone, and it is easy to buy a spare extractor from CZ for a ZKK or 550, or from Winchester for an early CRF mod 70 (although you need to ask for one that was not beveled, which they generally are not, but not always...).

There is also the good old adage "do not fix it if it is not broken" but it cannot hurt to stop mistreating the extractor by forcing it to jump the rim

And it cannot hurt to have a spare extractor in your Africa "possible bag", like in the old days best quality doubles came with a pair of spare firing pins

So on my GMA rifles I normally load the bullets in the magazine and then place one in the chamber pushing down on the bullets to close the bolt. Am I damaging my bolt face by doing this?

HH

Some will say no, I will say you are taking a risk, but I do not know if GMA cut some side clearance in the front bridge to allow the entire extractor to lift. I would think likely so, but I do not own one so I am not sure and will not speculate...

 

[One Day...]

So on my GMA rifles I normally load the bullets in the magazine and then place one in the chamber pushing down on the bullets to close the bolt. Am I damaging my bolt face by doing this?

HH

Upon re-reading your post, I apologize, I likely misread it the first time, understanding that you pushed a cartridge down in the chamber. My bad.

If you mean when you write that you "push down on the bullets to close the bolt" in the way I explained above, i.e. pushing the last bullet down in the magazine 1/2 or 1/3 of its diameter so that it can slide under the extractor when you close the bolt, and be carried in the chamber, then you are doing it right

I believe this is what you mean and I apologize for my erroneous first read.

PS: since I had understood that you could close the action on top of a round in the chamber, I was guessing that GMA would have cut some side clearance in the front bridge to allow the entire extractor to lift, Winchester-style, and it did surprise me a bit. But now that I understand you correctly, I believe, I am reverting to my earlier expectation from GMA, that being likely among the very best Mauser system actions in the world, they have enough respect for its design to not defeat it by cutting the space necessary for the extractor to jump the rim, either on the way in or out. It would be great if you can confirm since I do not own one

 

[SFRanger7GP]

All my bolt action rifles are CRF (Rigby, Interarms, Winchester). I have no idea if the bolt will jumpstart an extra round into the barrel on any of them. Their functional reliability is grabbing a round from the magazine and controlling its feeding and extraction to and from the chamber. I always just do it that way in training and when hunting. I am not concerned with the “extra round” as they all hold more rounds than my double rifle.

safe shooting

 

[colorado]

All my bolt action rifles are CRF (Rigby, Interarms, Winchester). I have no idea if the bolt will jumpstart an extra round into the barrel on any of them. Their functional reliability is grabbing a round from the magazine and controlling its feeding and extraction to and from the chamber. I always just do it that way in training and when hunting. I am not concerned with the “extra round” as they all hold more rounds than my double rifle.

safe shooting

Agree!

 

[geoff rath]

For what I have seen, including the early mistakes I have done myself , and I will hasten to say that I only have a very limited experience compared to folks whose job it is to work with (e.g. gunsmiths) or around (e.g. PHs) rifles, the failures are:

1- In the case of not understanding at all, or even knowing, the CRF design, it is possible -- although, I would guess, difficult -- to simply break the extractor hook by attempting to forcibly close the bolt. I have seen this with at least one rifle that was in pretty bad condition (spring steel easily looses its mechanical properties when oxidized i.e. rusted) and in the hands of a guy who was not very subtle ("dang kraut piece of crap, pass me the hammer to turn that bolt"). I would say that this scenario is likely unimaginable with the folks on AH

2- In the case when the beveling was done by someone who did not understand the dynamics at play, as was occasionally illustrated in this thread, and material was erroneously removed from the front of the extractor, it can take removing almost all the extractor hook, progressively in successive frustrated attempts, until what is left of the extractor hook finally manages to slide sideways past the rim. At that stage, there is little extractor engagement and it can easily slide past the rim on the way out, just as it did on its way in. Or, if what is left of the extractor hook is too thin, it can break when the action is closed and it is pushed hard on the rim before jumping it. There is no fix, the extractor needs to be changed. This was a very classic example of failure, in the early home-"fixed" military Mausers with folks wanting to be able to load one more round in the chamber after the magazine was full, and thinking that their extractor was too big ("you know, loose war-time military tolerances and no hand finishing, need to do the extractor adjustment myself that they did not take the time to do").

I expect that this would be very rare nowadays unless on a vintage rifle, or on a home project by a neophyte having more enthusiasm than knowledge.

Note: the correct way to load one more round, is the push down the cartridge that will go directly into the chamber as far down as it can go in the magazine -- it will not go into the magazine fully but generally even on a full magazine it can be pushed down halfway or at least a third of the way -- and move the bolts forward with the right hand while maintaining the cartridge half way down the magazine with the left thumb, so that the cartridge can slide under the extractor and be carried into the chamber, normal CRF way, as opposed to be pushed into the chamber. ​

​

Note: for a single rapid reload, just click the cartridge in the magazine, it is generally faster than trying to align it with the axis of the bore to clear the chamber rear edges, and it cannot fall on the ground while moving, as a cartridge just dropped on top of the magazine can. ​

3- In the case when the beveling was done -- I am tempted to say "correctly", but I do not believe that it is correct to bevel a Mauser extractor -- by removing material from the top of the extractor, the classic failure is at the torsion point as illustrated in the CAD sketches. This is the most common failure with the type of folks on AH who are generally not taking a hammer or a grinder to their DG rifles, and whose extractor is generally as it came from the factory or the shop, where, presumably, it was adjusted by professionals.

The problem with this, is that it is impossible to predict if the extractor will break at the 10th, 100th, or 1,000th closing of the bolt over a cartridge in the chamber. In the good old days in the French Alps when even in the 70's there were cases upon cases on 7.92 (ooops! European denomination, I must say "8 mm Mauser" here in the US) left from the German troops retreat if you knew whom to ask, you could get to 1,000 rounds pretty quickly. With a .458 in the US, most folks will likely not get there in their adult lifetime...

And of course, the extractor may never break, because it all depends on how much material was removed from the extractors by a careful and caring worker who carefully took out 1/2 millimeter at a time and ended up removing just the minimum, or by an unconcerned worker who took a big chunk out of it once just to make it work the first time. And, maybe more importantly, it also depends on how much tolerances exist on both that specific bolt and that specific receiver, which can vary widely, especially in actions made behind the iron curtain, or on machinery dating from that era (e.g. the classic discussion of CZ actions being rough, full of tool markings, and, for those a little more in the know, all over the place in term of machining tolerances).

Pressure?

To the best of my knowledge, none of the above has anything to do with load pressure, and yes indeed, in my experience with overpressure (specifically a MK13 rifle with Remington Defense action and .300 Win 5R barrel mounted on an Accuracy International chassis, in which the factory 190 gr Black Hill Match load stuck) it took a rubber mallet and some vigor to open the action, and I was darn lucky not to shear off the brazed bolt handle. Interestingly, the much maligned Remington extractor did not fail what must have been way, way, way above specs extraction tests (I fired a few shots to verify whether it was a single round fluke or a systemic problem, which it was).

Accidental / negligent discharges...

Oh, it happens... Over the course of 40 years of shooting, I have seen it with my own eyes on a military shooting range, on a civilian shooting range, and just this year in Africa. And I have a good friend PH who witnessed with his own eyes a woman being killed by one a few years ago. And it is not difficult to find PHs who have been shot or nearly missed by their clients; they are more numerous than folks think...

We all agree "sport hunters thankfully are not a conscript peasant army, and should treat firearms as though they are always loaded, being aware of muzzle direction, etc." but, right, wrong (in this case!), or indifferent, it is patent that not all of them do...

So, yes, I will take any and all additional risk-mitigating possible precautions, and I do believe that "non beveled extractor will greatly enhance either the safety of an otherwise safe, or as the case may be, unsafe firearm user", just as I have an immense appreciation for a Blaser or Krieghoff separate cocking mechanism.

In summary, some of the beveled extractors may never break; some may break tomorrow; and some may break -- of course! -- the one time in life when you finally faces a Buff... Hard to say...

What to do? I personally looked very carefully at the extractors as they came on the Mauser system rifles I purchased.

With surplus rifles bought as action donors, generally they are at military spec (hence, good) if they have not been "sporterized". If they have been "worked" on by bubbasmiths, just stay away from them...​

​

With custom rifles, or rifles based on a military action or an early FN action bought from true gun shops with true gunsmiths on staff I simply used to state that I did not want a beveled extractor, and I did not get one.​

​

With Santa Barbara, Zastava, etc. (and their myriads commercial importers: Parker Hale, Whitworth, Interarms, etc. even Remington at a time), ZKK and CZ actions/rifles etc. I looked at the extractors carefully and ended up replacing preemptively a couple.​

​

With modern Winchester 70, they are manufactured with a cutout in the right raceway which allows the entire extractor to move when jumping the rim (see CAD sketch in previous post). The risk of breaking the extractor is low. Likely very low.​

​

With Winchester 70 clones (e.g. Dakota, Montana, Kimber, etc.), I never owned one, so I am not sure and I will not guess.​

The nice thing is that it is still easy to find original military extractors (Google) if you have a military Mauser or a close clone, and it is easy to buy a spare extractor from CZ for a ZKK or 550, or from Winchester for an early CRF mod 70 (although you need to ask for one that was not beveled, which they generally are not, but not always...).

There is also the good old adage "do not fix it if it is not broken" but it cannot hurt to stop mistreating the extractor by forcing it to jump the rim

And it cannot hurt to have a spare extractor in your Africa "possible bag", like in the old days best quality doubles came with a pair of spare firing pins




Some will say no, I will say you are taking a risk, but I do not know if GMA cut some side clearance in the front bridge to allow the entire extractor to lift. I would think likely so, but I do not own one so I am not sure and will not speculate...

So thorough an explanation; thank you! Beware bubbasmiths !!

 

[Nevada Mike]

One Day - - You have introduced a number of variables into the discussion, which, of course, make the discussion more complex and maybe, convoluted.

After taking exception to my original comment on PROPERLY beveling the extractor claw face, you now seem to admit that it must be done carefully by a competent gunsmith. I agree and so stated by saying it must be done properly. My primary DG rifle was built on a Granite Mountain Arms action. They build, arguably, the best complete Mauser 98 style actions available. They build these actions to allow the extractor to snap over the rim of a single loaded cartridge. Are they wrong to do this for arms intended for DG hunting? I think not.

The original Paul Mauser design M98 was designed as a military rifle and for it's time and purpose it was/is brilliant. Requirements for hunting rifles, however, differ from military rifles - low 3 position safties to facititate scope use, down turned bolt handles, magnum lengths, and, yes, beveled extractors accommodate the needs of hunters.

Yes, there are plenty of inadequately skilled gunsmiths out there, but there are also a lot of very skilled and careful 'smiths as well.

Personally, I do not single load on top of the full magazine stack as I believe that this practice invites problems. I WILL single load over an empty magazine and I do find it faster than pushing the round into the magazine before operation the bolt. YMMV.

 

[NIGHTHAWK]

If the extractor on a Mauser 98 actioned rifle is beveled (by an experienced gunsmith), then it will allow you to snap the extractor directly over a cartridge in the chamber. The new Winchester Model 70 Safari Express is a good example.

Remington Model 700s are poorly suited for dangerous game. Unless you have an experienced gunsmith fit it with an M-16 extractor.

Good point about M-16 extractor on a REM 700.Thats what I have on my (Non-DG) 300 RUM. It functions flawlessly…

Plus it shoots very accurately for a long distance…

 

[MS 9x56]

Good point about M-16 extractor on a REM 700.Thats what I have on my (Non-DG) 300 RUM. It functions flawlessly…

Plus it shoots very accurately for a long distance…

But the real question is would you bet your life on it?

 

[NIGHTHAWK]

Sure; mine and yours… Starting at a mile!

 

[NIGHTHAWK]

But the real question is would you bet your life on it?

Actually, 1.14 Miles to be precise…

 

[MS 9x56]

4 African Hunts (2 for DG) and I’m going to stand by my Pre64 M70. Hoping my next DG hunt involves a double but will likely have the trusty Pre64 M70 present over the ZKK602 or newer M70 options in the safe.

If it ain’t broke don’t try to fix it.

 

[MS 9x56]

I don’t need CRF but it is reassuring to know I have it.

 

[NIGHTHAWK]

I don’t need CRF but it is reassuring to know I have it.

I have a couple myself…

 

[NIGHTHAWK]

I’m just not interested in throwing out what I know works well…

 

[NIGHTHAWK]

These work well:

These too: