Best 458 Buffalo Bullet @2150 FPS

[TOBY458]

You don't screw around!

Gotta get it while ya can! Unfortunately work has slowed down over the last couple of years, and I might not be able to restock the account quite as fast as before. So, this might be the last "big hunt" for awhile.

 

[Timbo]

Nice selection! When will you be in camp?

For the bulls I used Speer 270gr. They did the job, but the projie broke up a little too much for my liking.

As you know I went with my mate on a recce into Zambia. We saw herds of +700 free-range buffalo, and as there's a couple of National Parks bordering on to his area, there are some truly awesome trophies. He sms'd me this of one such taken recently.

 

[Brent James]

Looking for opinions on the best 480-500 grain 458 bullet for Cape Buffalo at a velocity of around 2150 fps. I think the Swift and Barnes may be too tough and some others not tough enough for buff. Looking for

 

[Brent James]

You could say I've got a bit of experience with buffalo . . . If you've got a 458 win mag, try & find something around 400 - 450 grains. You don't need 500s in it. If you mess up your first shot, it won't matter what your using. Buffalo are NOT armour plated, & succumb to a good soft or copper hollow pinot just fine.

 

[Timbo]

You could say I've got a bit of experience with buffalo . . . If you've got a 458 win mag, try & find something around 400 - 450 grains. You don't need 500s in it. If you mess up your first shot, it won't matter what your using. Buffalo are NOT armour plated, & succumb to a good soft or copper hollow pinot just fine.

I used to work with an ex-professional buffalo shooter, Frank Scheele, from NT. I was amazed when he told me that for all those years, all he ever used was a .303/25!! I suppose you're right that water buffalo aren't armour-plated.

 

[Brent James]

I used to work with an ex-professional buffalo shooter, Frank Scheele, from NT. I was amazed when he told me that for all those years, all he ever used was a .303/25!! I suppose you're right that water buffalo aren't armour-plated.

Can guarantee they're not. If you use a reasonable calibre, with a good , game projectile, & put it in the right place , first off, you won't have any problems. Too many people use a calibre in excess of their capabilities , & therefore their shot placement can be somewhat dubious. Many people also expect a buff to go down like a stag or hog . . . This just doesn't happen, unless you head shoot. I've used a 270 & 308 norma mag for a lot of culling & they work fine. Sure, some of the bigger cannons do work well if your on foot , but only if you can handle them. I must say however, my 500 Jeffrey, with 535 grn woodleighs, in rnsp, is the most emphatic buff dropper I have seen.

 

[Brent James]

Can guarantee they're not. If you use a reasonable calibre, with a good , game projectile, & put it in the right place , first off, you won't have any problems. Too many people use a calibre in excess of their capabilities , & therefore their shot placement can be somewhat dubious. Many people also expect a buff to go down like a stag or hog . . . This just doesn't happen, unless you head shoot. I've used a 270 & 308 norma mag for a lot of culling & they work fine. Sure, some of the bigger cannons do work well if your on foot , but only if you can handle them. I must say however, my 500 Jeffrey, with 535 grn woodleighs, in rnsp, is the most emphatic buff dropper I have seen.

Back in those days he would have been using Super, Riverbrand, or Sid Churches , Taipan projectiles. Hardly what you would describe as a stout projectile.

 

[Timbo]

Back in those days he would have been using Super, Riverbrand, or Sid Churches , Taipan projectiles. Hardly what you would describe as a stout projectile.

I just related one ex professional shooter's experience: you can go look him up. He had plenty of photos to back his claim - and yes I checked - he was holding his 303/25 in each. I agree with you, water buffalo are not armour-plated - as you mention using a 270 in culls.

You're correct though, that some people use firearms way in excess of what they can realistically handle. My daughter is only 45kg standing in boots and has a bit of experience hunting in Africa as well. So though I wasn't needed as back up, she did fine dropping her water buffalo with my '06.

Taipans! That a blast from the past - I used a few of those to shoot some sharks.

 

[bruce moulds]

brent,
you must be as old as me.
I can remember buying ar2201 powder in a plastic bag from riverbrand (ron holmes) and 50 and 55gn 224 bullets also in plastic bags.
I also remember taking 3000 riverbrand 308 reloads culling goats, and coming home with 7 rounds.
those 150 gn 308 pills were second to none in terminal performance on pigs and goats, and that includes sierra and speer.
just before riverbrand finished they started to develop a round they called the 263 express using military 308 brass necked down.
I also remember going into syd churches shop to buy 116 gn and 150 gn 270 cal bullets.
ah the good old days.
I also remember going into old bill hambly clarks shop in rundle street Adelaide as a school boy, and they let me look at rifles and talked to me.
this paid off in later years for them.
bruce.

 

[IvW]

As the OP asked about Cape Buffalo, I would not suggest either a 270 gr bullet in 375 H&H or a lighter than 500 gr bullet for his 458 LOTT.

Either the 500 gr or 550 gr Woodleigh at his intended velocity of 2100-2150 fps would be just about perfect. At that velocity they will expand perfectly(without over expansion), and penetrate more than enough for the intended purpose.

Culling or hunting water buffalo and hunting Cape Buffalo is not the same thing.

I would stick to the tried and tested formula of a heavy for caliber bullet at a reasonable velocity, therefore the 500-550 Woodies should be perfect in the Lott @ 2100-2150 fps. The recoil should be more than acceptable, if not the OP may be better off with a smaller caliber rifle such as a 404 Jeff...

Personally I believe if somebody cannot handle the recoil of a certain caliber it is better to step down to a smaller caliber rather than trying to "download" the bigger caliber...my thoughts anyway.

 

[colorado]

Agree with the bullet choice at least. 550g Woodleigh softs and solids at 2150 fps would be awesome.

 

[Brent James]

brent,
you must be as old as me.
I can remember buying ar2201 powder in a plastic bag from riverbrand (ron holmes) and 50 and 55gn 224 bullets also in plastic bags.
I also remember taking 3000 riverbrand 308 reloads culling goats, and coming home with 7 rounds.
those 150 gn 308 pills were second to none in terminal performance on pigs and goats, and that includes sierra and speer.
just before riverbrand finished they started to develop a round they called the 263 express using military 308 brass necked down.
I also remember going into syd churches shop to buy 116 gn and 150 gn 270 cal bullets.
ah the good old days.
I also remember going into old bill hambly clarks shop in rundle street Adelaide as a school boy, and they let me look at rifles and talked to me.
this paid off in later years for them.
bruce.

G'day Bruce,
I'd forgotten about 2201 powder ! I used to get that in 15kg kero tins back in the day . . . After that came 2206 . I used to get that in kero tins - 2 at a time . Tax exempt they were about 275 each. Sids projectiles came in the orange & blue boxes, with hand folded newspaper in them , with product details in brio on end of box . . . They wernt just the good old days. They were the best old days . . .As an aside , I used to get Winchester component projectiles in 55lb lots . . .7640, 55grn 224s, 5250, 80grn 6mm . . . .seems such a long time ago . . . The old ici/imi projectiles were good, when you could get enough of them.

 

[Brent James]

brent,
you must be as old as me.
I can remember buying ar2201 powder in a plastic bag from riverbrand (ron holmes) and 50 and 55gn 224 bullets also in plastic bags.
I also remember taking 3000 riverbrand 308 reloads culling goats, and coming home with 7 rounds.
those 150 gn 308 pills were second to none in terminal performance on pigs and goats, and that includes sierra and speer.
just before riverbrand finished they started to develop a round they called the 263 express using military 308 brass necked down.
I also remember going into syd churches shop to buy 116 gn and 150 gn 270 cal bullets.
ah the good old days.
I also remember going into old bill hambly clarks shop in rundle street Adelaide as a school boy, and they let me look at rifles and talked to me.
this paid off in later years for them.
bruce.

There is a Bill hambley Clark out at Barcaldine, was a gunsmith/ stock maker . . .Was selling a lot of gear 3 years ago.

 

[TOBY458]

As the OP asked about Cape Buffalo, I would not suggest either a 270 gr bullet in 375 H&H or a lighter than 500 gr bullet for his 458 LOTT.

Either the 500 gr or 550 gr Woodleigh at his intended velocity of 2100-2150 fps would be just about perfect. At that velocity they will expand perfectly(without over expansion), and penetrate more than enough for the intended purpose.

Culling or hunting water buffalo and hunting Cape Buffalo is not the same thing.

I would stick to the tried and tested formula of a heavy for caliber bullet at a reasonable velocity, therefore the 500-550 Woodies should be perfect in the Lott @ 2100-2150 fps. The recoil should be more than acceptable, if not the OP may be better off with a smaller caliber rifle such as a 404 Jeff...

Personally I believe if somebody cannot handle the recoil of a certain caliber it is better to step down to a smaller caliber rather than trying to "download" the bigger caliber...my thoughts anyway.

@IvW
I value your opinion on these subjects more than most. So, I want to ask you a question.
I'm having a dilemma about a few rifles. I have a 9.3x62 and a couple of 375 H&H rifles for general African hunting. I also like to carry along something larger for Cape Buffalo. Even though the 375 will work, I just like to use bigger caliber rifles for buffalo.
That being said, I have a 416 Ruger, 416 Rem Mag, and a 458 Lott to choose from for my next Cape Buffalo hunt.
The 416 Ruger is a Stainless 20" barrel, Ruger Alaskan rifle that shoots and handles very well.
The 416 Rem Mag is a Winchester 70 with. 24" barrel. I used it with perfect results last year on a Cape Buffalo hunt. However I didn't care for the heavy weight of the rifle and the long 24" barrel in the thick bush.
The 458 Lott is a recently purchased rifle that has a 24" barrel, but is lighter than the Winchester 416 and has a better fitting stock than both rifles mentioned above.

Given a choice, which one would you choose for my upcoming Buffalo hunt?
416 Ruger 400gr Swift A Frames 2250fps.
416 Rem Mag 400gr Swifts 2350fps.
458 Lott 500gr Woodies 2150fps.

Thanks for your input!

 

[TOBY458]

I forgot to mention the 458 Lott is a Dakota 76, with an extremely reliable feed and function, just as the other two rifles mentioned.

 

[IvW]

@IvW
I value your opinion on these subjects more than most. So, I want to ask you a question.
I'm having a dilemma about a few rifles. I have a 9.3x62 and a couple of 375 H&H rifles for general African hunting. I also like to carry along something larger for Cape Buffalo. Even though the 375 will work, I just like to use bigger caliber rifles for buffalo.
That being said, I have a 416 Ruger, 416 Rem Mag, and a 458 Lott to choose from for my next Cape Buffalo hunt.
The 416 Ruger is a Stainless 20" barrel, Ruger Alaskan rifle that shoots and handles very well.
The 416 Rem Mag is a Winchester 70 with. 24" barrel. I used it with perfect results last year on a Cape Buffalo hunt. However I didn't care for the heavy weight of the rifle and the long 24" barrel in the thick bush.
The 458 Lott is a recently purchased rifle that has a 24" barrel, but is lighter than the Winchester 416 and has a better fitting stock than both rifles mentioned above.

Given a choice, which one would you choose for my upcoming Buffalo hunt?
416 Ruger 400gr Swift A Frames 2250fps.
416 Rem Mag 400gr Swifts 2350fps.
458 Lott 500gr Woodies 2150fps.

Thanks for your input!

That is an easy one, I would go with the 458 Lott Dakota 76 the 500 gr Woodies @ 2150 will hammer any buffalo. The stock fit is also extremely important. I would however if you have the time try some 550 gr Woodies and if the rifle likes them and the recoil is about the same, I would go with those.

You can then either take the 9.3 or 375 for PG whichever you prefer. You would be set for anything that comes your way, have a tracker carry the second rifle...

I do not like Ruger's for DG by the way...

 

[TOBY458]

That is an easy one, I would go with the 458 Lott Dakota 76 the 500 gr Woodies @ 2150 will hammer any buffalo. The stock fit is also extremely important. I would however if you have the time try some 550 gr Woodies and if the rifle likes them and the recoil is about the same, I would go with those.

You can then either take the 9.3 or 375 for PG whichever you prefer. You would be set for anything that comes your way, have a tracker carry the second rifle...

I do not like Ruger's for DG by the way...

Thanks IvW! Sounds like a good plan. In regards to the Ruger rifles, what do you not like about them?

 

[IvW]

Thanks IvW! Sounds like a good plan. In regards to the Ruger rifles, what do you not like about them?

Early M77 like to jam when worked fast especially in 458 WM.(Push feed action non rotating extractor claw)

Newer versions seem to feed ok and reliably, however the problem arises with extraction. Once you have fired the round and work the bolt back fast and all the way to the back(as you should to avoid short stroking it), then it will not properly or correctly eject the case. It seems to want to eject the case upward instead of out the side of the action. The faster you work the action after firing the shot the worse it gets.

Fitting a low mounted scope in some calibers makes it worse.

 

[TOBY458]

Early M77 like to jam when worked fast especially in 458 WM.(Push feed action non rotating extractor claw)

Newer versions seem to feed ok and reliably, however the problem arises with extraction. Once you have fired the round and work the bolt back fast and all the way to the back(as you should to avoid short stroking it), then it will not properly or correctly eject the case. It seems to want to eject the case upward instead of out the side of the action. The faster you work the action after firing the shot the worse it gets.

Fitting a low mounted scope in some calibers makes it worse.

Must be on a case by case basis. My Ruger seems to eject with no problem. My only real concern with it is the 416 Ruger case has very little taper, and I've heard a few instances of stuck cases in the chamber. I believe it only has around .013 of taper. Where the Lott and the 375 H&H have between .030 for the Lott and over .040 for the H&H. As you know, it's easier to pull a cone out of a chamber than a cylinder.
Either way, I think your advice on choosing the Lott is sound. I may need to give some thought to not selling it, and maybe part with a different rifle or two that maybe don't fit the bill so well...

 

[IvW]

Must be on a case by case basis. My Ruger seems to eject with no problem. My only real concern with it is the 416 Ruger case has very little taper, and I've heard a few instances of stuck cases in the chamber. I believe it only has around .013 of taper. Where the Lott and the 375 H&H have between .030 for the Lott and over .040 for the H&H. As you know, it's easier to pull a cone out of a chamber than a cylinder.
Either way, I think your advice on choosing the Lott is sound. I may need to give some thought to not selling it, and maybe part with a different rifle or two that maybe don't fit the bill so well...

They do not all have issues but to many do for my liking. Just make sure it functions at high speed vigorous reloading after the shot.

Perhaps you should flog all three and get a nice 404 Jeff......