Barnes "X" bullets?

[Ontario Hunter]

Online I found what I thought was a good deal for a box of fifty 400 gr Barnes 404 bullets (~$60 US). When they arrived I discovered they are not TSX which I have been loading but rather "X" bullets. These have no canalure groove but do have the dimple tip. Can anyone give me some info? Will they require modifying my powder charge? How do they crimp?

 

[Firebird]

Do a google search for “original Barnes x bullet” and I believe you will have your answers.
The biggest thing you will find is that you will need to clean your barrel more often and pressure/velocity will vary from your tsx recipe

 

[skydiver386]

Might also look up specific load data for these. Nothing wrong with them, just different, as they produce a little more pressure. The grooves in the newer Barnes X bullets were meant to relieve this pressure and reduce fouling. I've never loaded the Original X in that caliber, but they seem to like some powders better than others.

Again, nothing wrong with these bullets, they're just different.

 

[Tally-Ho HUNTING SAFARIS]

Theseare the original barnes
Before the tsx and ttsx etc

 

[festuscat]

I still have Barns X bullets from 25 years ago. I use then for my .416 REM and had excellent results. And I did not exp setback on recoil, but then again, I have solids in the magazine.
I wouldn’t be concerned. I have Barns book #4 if you need data.

 

[Ontario Hunter]

Good to know about pressure differences. Barnes publishes very little loading data for 404 TSX. I'll look for X on their site but not optimistic. Maybe I'll drop them an email.

 

[festuscat]

I do see info on a .404. My book has data on .423 for the .404 Jeffery.
my cousin has one and we are going to work up a load for it.

I’m probably not the best source for info on this site. I’ve shot quite a few Cape buffalo but never a whitetail deer ( I had to clean them as a kid- couldn’t wait till quail season)

Good luck
jack

 

[Luvthunt]

Back in the 90s I was working on a 458 Lott loads. Not much info available in those days. IMR 4320 seem to be giving what we were looking after on the Beta chrony. But the old Barnes X bullets were giving stiff bolt lift vs the Swift Aframes. Set there at the bench one day and the lite bulb went off as to length of bullet ie powder compression . As you stated the X bullet was without any grooves/banding. But plenty of copper in the barrel.
Lowered expectations to 2250fps stuck with the500 gr Aframes . End of bench marathons.

 

[Red Leg]

They also had a reputation of sometimes shedding petals - another issue that was addressed when the bullet was redesigned.

 

[Rusty Iron]

Good to know about pressure differences. Barnes publishes very little loading data for 404 TSX. I'll look for X on their site but not optimistic. Maybe I'll drop them an email.

Send them an email. I’ve found them to be very responsive and willing to share info.

I used the old Barnes X bullets in my 7MM REM MAG for a couple seasons before I gave up on them as I often found very poor expansion. I use Barnes TSX and TTSX bullets in my 375 HH AND 300 WIN MAG and feel they open up and perform more reliably.

 

[fourfive8]

Co-worker was family friends with owners of Barnes when they first came out with the X bullet. Of course I bought a box and loaded a few. 10 rounds convinced me they were not a good design- erratic pressures, poor accuracy and barrel fouling. Barnes got the word from a ton of negative feedback but it took a few years for that to sink in and for them to correct the problem. Drive band technology incorporated into the TXS design solved the problems. Odd it took so long to acknowledge the issue and make the design changes.... drive band technology for monolithic projectiles, including sabot'd artillery rounds, has been known since at least the Civil War or earlier The TSX is now one of my go-to soft points. Kind of reminds me of Hornady being in denial for years about issues with their original DGX bullet before correcting the design flaw- a bad rep that lingers to this day

 

[skydiver386]

Co-worker was family friends with owners of Barnes when they first came out with the X bullet. Of course I bought a box and loaded a few. 10 rounds convinced me they were not a good design- erratic pressures, poor accuracy and barrel fouling. Barnes got the word from a ton of negative feedback but it took a few years for that to sink in and for them to correct the problem. Drive band technology incorporated into the TXS design solved the problems. Odd it took so long to acknowledge the issue and make the design changes.... drive band technology for monolithic projectiles, including sabot'd artillery rounds, has been known since at least the Civil War or earlier The TSX is now one of my go-to soft points. Kind of reminds me of Hornady being in denial for years about issues with their original DGX bullet before correcting the design flaw- a bad rep that lingers to this day

I think they got sidetracked with the Moly type SLC coating, thinking that would solve the pressure problems, and would be an easy fix. Lathe turning those bands onto the shank of a bullet isn't the cheapest way to do things, but eventually it proved to be the right answer.

 

[mdwest]

Good to know about pressure differences. Barnes publishes very little loading data for 404 TSX. I'll look for X on their site but not optimistic. Maybe I'll drop them an email.

I just checked the old Barnes 1st edition reloading manual I have.. they address the 375 X bullet and the 416 X bullet.. and the .430 bullet.. but there is nothing in the manual that addresses the 404 J's .423 X bullet...

the 4th edition of the Barnes manual has a little bit of info related to the 404J (it addresses 400gr TSX and 400gr banded solids)... not sure if that will help you.. but here's a pic from the page..

View attachment 1718997868692.png

 

[fourfive8]

I think they got sidetracked with the Moly type SLC coating, thinking that would solve the pressure problems, and would be an easy fix. Lathe turning those bands onto the shank of a bullet isn't the cheapest way to do things, but eventually it proved to be the right answer.

Could be. I’m not sure the TSX is 100% lathe turned. They have the appearance of being at least partially swaged and tumbled. Could be a proprietary process?… but I don’t know.

 

[Tokoloshe Safaris]

I tried the Barnes X bullet when they first came out.
Shot about 10 rds and built up enough copper in my bbl. That I never wanted to see a barnes bullet or a bore scope.

Lon

 

[Clodo Ferreira]

Hi,

I used that first BARNES X back in 1996. Got 5 boxes of 250 grs .375". Still have some 20 loaded cartridges. Loaded them with 77 grs R15 in Winchester cases and Federal 215 primers. Got 2850 f/s in my Winchester 70 pre-64 with 25" bareel. Any pressure issues, bolt open easely, as usual in the original pre-64, very good and consistent groups at 100, 200 and 300 meters. The only "problem" was the copper in the barrel, really heavy. But was able to remove with ammonia and Remington Clean-Bore abrasive solution. That 250 grs batch has a very thin and fine front part. Expand very easy! Like the performance on paper and game, Big Red deer.

Cf

 

[meigsbucks]

I checked the old Barnes manuals, #1-3 and there isn’t any data for the .404.

 

[Ontario Hunter]

Could be. I’m not sure the TSX is 100% lathe turned. They have the appearance of being at least partially swaged and tumbled. Could be a proprietary process?… but I don’t know.

If TSX are swaged, perhaps Barnes would take these X bullets back and turn them into TSX? I'll call them for suggestions. Thanks.

 

[Tex .416]

If TSX are swaged, perhaps Barnes would take these X bullets back and turn them into TSX? I'll call them for suggestions. Thanks.

Burning a pound of powder with those is another $50 out the window for likely will be poor and frustrating results. Buy the bullet you want, do not waste any more time, effort, or money with those.

 

[Ontario Hunter]

Mistakes happen, wasting more time and components - i.e. money - fooling with those is another mistake easily avoided. Buy the bullet you want, do not waste any more effort with those. Asking a manufacturer to swap an obsolete product seems a bit of an overreach to me.

If I could find the bullets, I would buy them. Component availability is not what it was six years ago.

Not asking Barnes to swap. If they are set up to swage the rings in TSX bullets, perhaps they can just run these through the dies. Guess I could ask.