Barnes bullet expansion problems

[PHOENIX PHIL]

I haven’t taken as much game as many on here have, but I have taken twenty plus animals with Barnes TSX bullets and haven’t had a failure to expand.
As far as fouling, IMO, I’ve found they may foul slightly more than most cup and core. I’ve also found Swift AF foul about the same. Not enough to worry about.
NOTE: I tend to clean copper out of barrels at the 75-100 rd mark, no matter what bullets I’m using. Just seems easier to clean out before it builds up.

On fouling and the Barnes I’m sure it’s a function also of the barrel. It’s an issue on most of mine but not all. Quite certain there will be varying results here from shooter to shooter. It’s just something to be aware of if you go with the Barnes.

 

[TMac]

I have seen on many deer stalking pages and it says not to use Barnes bullets as they do not expand well enough for UK deer stalking. Has anyone had any experience with Barnes bullets not expanding.

There are three commonly used designs of Barnes bullets for deer. The TSX, the TTSX and the LRX. The TTSX is designed to open faster than the TSX, and the LRX opens the quickest of the trio. If you stick to the TTSX and LRX, you will have good results on deer, almost always an exit, and less meat damage than most bullets. For deer, go a bit lighter than you would with a lead based bullet, Barnes bullets love speed.

I don’t use the TSX, as I have an aversion to hollow point bullets for hunting in smaller calibers. I have used the TTSX and LRX on deer to good effect.

 

[crs]

Using Barnes 300 grain TSX in my 1895 .405 WCF I have taken a few deer, a 300 pound red deer, Nilgai, and feral hogs, but never recovered a bullet. So, I do not know or care if they expand as they normally make one shot kills.
North Fork 300 grain bullet results in my .405 are much the same.
Woodleigh 400 grain bullets much the same on buff (shoot through and no bullet to recover).


Mmmm, do you think that I am using too much gun?

 

[mikecatt13]

I've almost always used hornady in the US. Been researching on what I will use in africa. I'm not a fan of it being so easy to find evidence of Barnes that dont expand. In their defense, the reporters say the kills were still fast and clean. I've had a very bad experience with a bullet failure (Winchester) and I'm not going to tempt fate by using something that fairly commonly doesnt do what it's supposed to. You wouldnt knowing shoot a FMJ (nonexpanding) bullet at most plains game, with the exceptions of maybe some of the tiny 10 and when solids are needed on DG. Just my thought process on it. I'll be shooting A Frames for an expanding bullet.

Barnes appear to be effective and I've had good luck with their LRX bullet on deer, that's just my personal choice and logic on the TSX/TTSX

 

[crs]

"You wouldnt knowing shoot a FMJ (nonexpanding) bullet at most plains game,"

Are you familiar with the Winchester Fail Safe bullets?
I took the 230 grain load along on my first safari for my .338 Win Mag. Highly accurate and deadly on everything from Impala to Eland. The only one recovered had a short but rough life;a 150 yard shot on a departing Gemsbok bull. It shot through shoulders and broke the back and was recovered under the off side hide. When examined it had an oval cross section. It has been featured in a couple articles and a slide presentation documenting my first safari. I keep it at eye level on the book case above my desk. = good memories

My hunting partner used my .338 on his eland and that Fail Safe shot through a 3000 pound eland broadside and exited never to be found. The eland just settled down on its knees and belly and was DRT. It took 11 men to get the carcass into a truck bed - I know because I was taking pictures. The ranch had cattle facilities including scales.

 

[mikecatt13]

"You wouldnt knowing shoot a FMJ (nonexpanding) bullet at most plains game,"

Are you familiar with the Winchester Fail Safe bullets?

I had not...but a quick Google search revealed that, despite what could be described as mixed results at best, they were designed for the front portion to expand. Which is different than a FMJ type bullet I was referencing. There were also many accounts of animals taking a long time to be found if at all when they didnt expand, hence my point of the FMJs. Glad they worked for you on your trip though!

I find it rather comical, especially considering my history with their products, that Winchester names a bullet the "failsafe" and they have to discontinue it due to failures

 

[crudeoildude]

long time Barnes fan the only problems I have had were accuracy prob when loading the Tsx at near max in a o6 all of the recovered bullets and there was not many showed the perfect 4 petal mushroom and all weighed in at 95% of orig wgt.90% of kills were pass throughs .this was all American game mostly deer elk and antelope, use the varmit granades in 22-250 for fur bearers and praire dogs love them I believe that damaged tsx will fail to open properly the ttsx should remedy this.

 

[crs]

"they have to discontinue it due to failures"

I remember when they discontinued the FailSafe/Black Talon. Pissed me off as they were my favorite bullet for years. The reasons given back than were that they were too expensive to make so they went to a less costly bullet that worked as well.

PS I must have good "bullet Luck" as none of the bad things I hear about various bullets have ever happened to me when using those bullets.

 

[mikecatt13]

"they have to discontinue it due to failures"

I remember when they discontinued the FailSafe/Black Talon. Pissed me off as they were my favorite bullet for years. The reasons given back than were that they were too expensive to make so they went to a less costly bullet that worked as well.

PS I must have good "bullet Luck" as none of the bad things I hear about various bullets have ever happened to me when using those bullets.

Always good to have luck!

Again, my opinion on the Barnes is mostly just personal preference because I have yet to read a report where they didnt produce a quick ethical kill. Mostly based upon an experience with a deer and a Winchester bullet failure I dont care to repeat

 

[BenKK]

Using 55 grain Barnes TSX out of a .22-250 is a problem with pigs, as is using the 180 grain TSX out of a .300 Magnum. They zip through without doing enough damage. They work very well on buffalo.

 

[fourfive8]

Actually I think Winchester discontinued the Failsafe/Black Talon series because of continued threat of litigation because of shootings involving those bullets- no matter the actual outcomes of the previous litigations or the specific type of bullet or primary use- hunting or self defense handgun. Just a decision to avoid the issue all together.

From a hunting and overall performance stand point that bullet was very similar to the original smooth sided Barnes X, both being a very new concept in the minds of hunters, many or most of whom being use to and comfortable with the explosive nature of conventional cup and core bullets. At that time most were still expecting and wanting same old-same old, preferring the known- even though overall, the results of a tougher bullet were more predictable. Many following and re-quoting Joyce Hornady who kept telling everyone who complained about his explosive, frangible bullets... "what are you complaining about, dead is dead".

 

[Philip Glass]

I now use BARNES TTSX in every rifle I own. From .270 - 130 gr to .416 - 350 gr.
All reloads to BARNES reloading specifications.

I have encountered ONE bullet that did not perform as expected. That was due to a deflection before it hit the animal. Otherwise, no problems.

Used on everything from:
Red Duiker, Oribi (Equivalent to the little guys in the UK) to Eland, Kudu, Oryx (the same or bigger than Red's)

Granted I have recovered very few bullets. The exit holes tell the story though.

The last bullet recovered. From a Whitetail taken this year.
View attachment 326253

I am also using Barnes in most all my guns. Great performance. Are there some that lose petals? Yes. But it’s rare. Lots of dead’s from Barnes!

 

[Philip Glass]

It is interesting how an old concern persists and gets repeated.
ie. Like Hornady DGX poor performance.
The problem being solved by the latest iteration of their bullet being bonded. That will not wipe away the history, but I have no doubt that Hornady will hope that it will fade.

I have never experienced excessive fouling with the Barnes bullets or loss of accuracy. However, I don't shoot hundreds of rounds at a time. I was not using Barnes bullets when they first came out. I am a late arrival to the Barnes party and perhaps things have changed the metal recipe.

Once shooters/hunters find an effective bullet or an ineffective bullet it tends to stick. Take the warnings and test the theory for yourself in your own firearm.

Kinda like the Blaser R93 being compared to the all new R8. Old news keeps getting reported online.

 

[crs]

458, good point.
I remember that , but did not mention it as I did not want to try to explain it.

In my experience, game that is shot through the shoulders cannot escape. Same for the head, pelvis, back, etc.
Double lung shots and heart shots are usually fast killers, requiring little or no tracking, even with non expanding bullets. Shots to the rest of the body are usually less effective and often result in difficult tracking or lost game.
IMHO, much of the complaints about "bad" solid bullets are actually because of "bad" shooting. Did that my self on my first Impala - somehow put a Black Talon near, but not through several kill-shot organs , resulting in a pencil-like hole low in the body that took a while for the animal to bleed out. After a few yards of tracking, the PH wisely said "We come back later with tracker"; about an hour later we returned and the tracker soon found impala dead on the ground. The horns are on my wall. I have tried to avoid such shot placement since that experience. After dropping this Pronghorn with a 238 yard shot, my son complained - you did it again, ruined meat by shooting it in the shoulder. The 165 grain Hornady bullet actually went through right shoulder and out behind left leg. A disabling shot and heart shot! Game dropped and went nowhere.

Notice the lush prairie grass? The entire Texas Panhandle was covered with it and all the game was fat and healthy.

 

[fourfive8]

Yes, very nice pronghorn and photo! I love to hunt in those conditions.

 

[AB2506]

I am so confident in Barnes bullets, I feel ill prepared if I use factory loads or handloads that don't use Barnes bullets. Only exception is my coyote rifles where I use Hornady VMax.

 

[markferrigno]

I had great result with barnes TSX factory loads (.308) in Africa on Plains Game. The guide told to only bring those. They shoot great out of my Browning X-Bolt, very, very accurate. When I lived in Germany, not so great on red/Roe/Fallow. Germany mandated "Lead Free" ammo on all federal land, the foresters hate that rule. Copper bullets work great on thick skin game but not so much on think skin game like Deer. Lots of pas through with very little blood trails.

 

[Ridgewalker]

The only Africa game recoveries in 4 trips I have had:
300 gr TSX from Cape buffalo.

 

[CoElkHunter]

The only Africa game recoveries in 4 trips I have had:
300 gr TSX from Cape buffalo.
View attachment 329160 View attachment 329161 View attachment 329162 View attachment 329163

Looks like very consistent expansion with all of the different weights of these Barnes bullets? Another good photographic example of why I should switch to Barnes in my .270, .338 and .375?

 

[Aussie_Hunter]

Looks like very consistent expansion with all of the different weights of these Barnes bullets? Another good photographic example of why I should switch to Barnes in my .270, .338 and .375?

I have just recently started using Barnes in my 308 for pigs here in Australia. Checkout the accuracy out of my Steyr Ranger, 4 shot group at 100 yards with a 7 power scope. I have only shot a couple of pigs with them so far so Im not completely sold on them yet but I am off to a good start with them thats for sure.