Barnes bullet expansion in large calibers (375 and up)

[1dirthawker]

Had terrible performance of 250 grain Hornady GMX out of a 375 H&H.

thats interesting, i used 250 gr GMX bullets in my 375 ruger and had phenomenal luck with that bullet. 1 big bull moose, 2 bull caribou and a very large brown bear. recovered a bullet from one frontal caribou, one neck shot quartering moose and broadside bear, all perfect expansion and performance. bear was shot multiple times.

 

[bruce moulds]

Kevin Robertson made a very interesting inference once that the 375s penetration is hampered somewhat by overly fast-twist barrels. Interesting...

I would ask why?
bruce.

 

[Badboymelvin]

gentlemen,

i just talked to ryan at the barnes bullet company this morning and got some news/finality that i will share with you.

this is by memory so here you go,

BARNES TRIPLE SHOCK BULLETS;

500 gr= opens down to 1400 fps
450 gr= opens down to 1500
400 gr= opens down to 1600 fps
350 gr= opens down to 1500 fps

300 gr and lighter were designed with the 458 socomm in mind and open down to
1100-1200 fps.

like a dumbass, i forgot to ask about the 470 and 500 cal bullets, but this give you some ideas on their approach to building a bullet for express rifles. also, ryan mentioned that this information was not published anywhere (i did ask that)

so, there ya go people, the last word (that is not anecdotal) regarding barnes triple shock bullets started out at express velocities.

Thanks for posting this - it's a valuable tool for people who use Barnes triple Shock bullets.

Cheers,

Russ

 

[baxterb]

I would ask why?
bruce.

He says the fast twist (1:12 vs. The 1:15 that’s needed to stabilize a 300gr) “this adds unnecessary rotational forces to a bullet that i suspect contributed in some way to the 375s reputation for poor performance with conventional soft points.”

 

[bassasdaindia]

I wish we could get Barnes bullets here again in South Africa , i would like to use the 300g in .416 as well as the 250g in .375

 

[Alistair]

He says the fast twist (1:12 vs. The 1:15 that’s needed to stabilize a 300gr) “this adds unnecessary rotational forces to a bullet that i suspect contributed in some way to the 375s reputation for poor performance with conventional soft points.”

It's probably a fair point this. A faster speed of rotation is likely to destabilise the bullet faster and cause more yaw in tissue once expansion starts and the centre of mass and centre of rotation starts to change

That said, I think this small loss is more than balanced out by the flexibility that fast twist gives you with lighter bullet weights for lighter game and practice.

 

[1dirthawker]

That said, I think this small loss is more than balanced out by the flexibility that fast twist gives you with lighter bullet weights for lighter game and practice.

alister, i believe that a faster twist benefits longer/heavier bullets more. slower twists benefit lighter shorter bullets more. (all this of course in the same caliber.)

 

[baxterb]

alister, i believe that a faster twist benefits longer/heavier bullets more. slower twists benefit lighter shorter bullets more. (all this of course in the same caliber.)

Correct. When 100% copper bullets came out, they really confused folks who automatically associated twist with bullet weight only.

 

[Tidalgunner]

I actually called Barnes and talked to them about expansion of their .510 caliber TSX bullets. "As long as you are over 1,200 fps they will open up" was the answer I got.

I second that. The velocity has to be a minimum of 1200 to get the hydrostatic pressure to open the petals. I have a .338 win mag and I actually keep it at a max range of 500 yards (1900 fps) because the petals don't open up enough past that range where I would feel comfortable. After that the velocity curve really degrades.

 

[bruce moulds]

He says the fast twist (1:12 vs. The 1:15 that’s needed to stabilize a 300gr) “this adds unnecessary rotational forces to a bullet that i suspect contributed in some way to the 375s reputation for poor performance with conventional soft points.”

it must be to do with conventional cup and core bullets.
experiments done by a friend with twists in 220 swift clearly showed more violent terminal performance with faster twists.
he was looking for explosive varmint behaviour and found it.
the same would hold true of softs in hunting calibres, less the explosiveness.
higher striking velocity also does this.
however barnesx would not have this problem, and probably swift as well.
I would not trust woodleighs as much in fast twists.
bruce.

 

[Dirtdart]

These are 235 grain .375 Barnes X recovered from my 100 yard backstop dirt backstop with 100% retention. Doesn't mean much but is more confidence inspiring than other things

I have retrieved.

 

[ve7poi]

Used Barnes 400tsx in 404 Jeffery at 2300fps chronograph on Cape eland at 200yds
Bullet opened up perfect petals and went through both shoulders ending up under skin on off shoulder.

 

[bruce moulds]

Used Barnes 400tsx in 404 Jeffery at 2300fps chronograph on Cape eland at 200yds
Bullet opened up perfect petals and went through both shoulders ending up under skin on off shoulder.

elands are big.
bruce.

 

[1dirthawker]

Used Barnes 400tsx in 404 Jeffery at 2300fps chronograph on Cape eland at 200yds
Bullet opened up perfect petals and went through both shoulders ending up under skin on off shoulder.

great performance, start velocity 150-200 fps faster than an "express" rifle, and inpacting around 2000 fps. still, good info thanks.

 

[bruce moulds]

great performance, start velocity 150-200 fps faster than an "express" rifle, and inpacting around 2000 fps. still, good info thanks.

making this load a "super exress"
bruce.

 

[Ed Lally]

Over the last three Safaris, I used Barnes 50gr (.22-250), 100gr (.25-06), 140gr (7x64), 165gr (.300 WBY), 250gr (.375H&H) on PG, everything from Springbok to Zebra and EVERY shot except one was a one shot kill and that was my fault, I pulled the shot. I recovered several bullets and all were textbook expansions. 50gr to 250gr and performed as advertised!! I am hunting Buff in Zim in 2021. I will use 500gr Barnes in .470 NE or .458 Lott (bringing both). If it ain't broke, don't fix it!

 

[Foxi]

I've had great success with 525 grain (light for caliber) TSX bullets in my 505 Gibbs exiting at 2350 fps. Perfect performance on a buffalo and a giraffe. I would expect similar performance in a 458 Lott and 416 Rigby or Rem mag.

Had terrible performance of 250 grain Hornady GMX out of a 375 H&H.

for me interesting to learn, that also a copper full bullet from such a powerful cartridge as the .505 brings no exit hole on a buff and a giraffe.

@dirthwalker
without high velocity the flags don't roll out.We talk about it in G that on the target it needs a velocity of 600 m/s = 1.968 fps to get textbook expansion.
I have never used your caliber with Barnes, but when I go to the mountains (long shots) I do not use copper bullets.

 

[Philip Glass]

Over the last three Safaris, I used Barnes 50gr (.22-250), 100gr (.25-06), 140gr (7x64), 165gr (.300 WBY), 250gr (.375H&H) on PG, everything from Springbok to Zebra and EVERY shot except one was a one shot kill and that was my fault, I pulled the shot. I recovered several bullets and all were textbook expansions. 50gr to 250gr and performed as advertised!! I am hunting Buff in Zim in 2021. I will use 500gr Barnes in .470 NE or .458 Lott (bringing both). If it ain't broke, don't fix it!

Ed
I have also had great luck in many calibers hunting with Barnes ammo. 70gr 5.56, 160g 7mm Mag(2 different rifles), 270g .375 Ruger, and 500g .470NE.
I can’t wait to work with another Barnes load!
Philip

 

[Foxi]

Ed
I have also had great luck in many calibers hunting with Barnes ammo. 70gr 5.56, 160g 7mm Mag(2 different rifles), 270g .375 Ruger, and 500g .470NE.
I can’t wait to work with another Barnes load!
Philip

There are also other good ones ,but Barnes has the most experience.
For me,at the moment the best copper bullet worldwide.

 

[Ridgewalker]

I can only relate my experiences with .375 H&H, but it has all been positive.
300 TSX - bushpig (25-30 yards), fine Cape buffalo (30) recovered and good mushroom, and bushbuck (30-35), duiker (15-20).
250 TTSX (now a favorite for accuracy) - croc (90 yards), eland (125 yards only one recovered and perfect mushroom), warthog (75 ran 100 yards or so), black wildebeest (170+), sable (25), caracal (25).
235 TSX (not as flat shooting as 250 even though it’s 200 fps faster), impala (40), blesbok (350), lion (17-19), lioness (20-25) recovered both with perfect mushroom, warthog (25), springbuck (75-100), blue wildebeest (150). I do not recommend the stubby 235 for lion. I would use a soft 300 grain cup and core if I did it again. Maybe a Nosler Partition.
JME&O