Bad safari customers-- is the customer ever wrong and what would you do??

[ActionBob]

I have avoided auction hunts for all the reasons this discussion is taking place.... However I did meet a guy who had bought one and was planning to upgrade the hunt to include a Kudu... The outfitter asked him $4500 trophy fee and then gave him a "deal" for only $3500! Sounds like an outfitter taking advantage to me. I told the guy a kudu should be a lot less than that.

I think the price list should be disclosed before the auction so a potential bidder knows if it is competitive.... It sounds like the client this string was started about was taking his bargain shopping to the limit but I also wonder if everything was fully disclosed accurately. And for sure there is guilt of not writing things down and having it fully understood.

 

[siml]

Bob, I totally agree with you, that is a crazy price for a kudu.

I have donated several hunts to Texas beef barons ball, all my hunts have sold for extremely high prices, and only one client actually came for the hunt, and he sure let the lead fly and was a fantastic client. The money from the other hunts all went to cancer foundation.

 

[jeff]

I have been on an auction hunt and the outfitter delivered everything he said he would, I extended the hunt and added two days. I would do another one, I just do the research before hand and also talk to the outfitter. The safari industry is to be commended for all their donations as it has raised an enormous amount of money for conservation! With out bidders that also wouldn't be possible.

 

[siml]

Jeff, I agree most outfitters will deliver what they offer on the auction, but too many donations hurts the hunting industry as well, we need to have a good balance.

 

[thi9elsp]

My first safari to Africa was an auction hunt purchased in 2011 at the DSC banquet. It was with Chifuti Safaris and they delivered everything that was included and spelled out. I also shot 3 additional animals. I tipped the PH and staff according to the retail value of the hunt, not the auction price I paid. Would I buy another auction hunt, yes. But I would do it only where the terms were very explicitly stated and I had vetted the outfitter.

As others have said, I commend the PH for stepping in, I condemn the PHs that withdrew their hunts, I do not begrudge the client for trying to string the hunts together, and I do hold the client in disdain for trying to get even more from the PH.

 

[PHOENIX PHIL]

Just my 2 cents, but it seems to me that for the donation hunt to be optimal, it needs to be a win win win situation.

DSC/SCI/Name Your Fav Org needs to have the donation hunts go for a reasonable amount of money to cover the costs of advertising it and whatever else as well as have it be meaningful. I.e. if they only make $100 on any given donation hunt, was it really worthwhile? I would think there is a point where too many auction hunts dilutes the value of those hunts and just makes for that many more auctions they have to handle. So I'd have to say there's a limit as to how many they take on. Where that limit is, I don't know.

Auction Buyers need the outfitters to come through with what was promised. It means nothing if someone buys a 10 day hunt with 5 animals included for a $500 if they see nothing but substandard animals, eat peanut butter & jelly sandwiches at each meal and hunt for 3 hours a day.

Outfitters need a win too. This is a business for them. I don't take issue whatsoever in the outfitter hoping for some positive reviews from the buyer, a few extra hunting days and/or trophies at normal prices perhaps even that the buyer will return for a normally paid to the outfitter hunt. Should they EXPECT this? No, they should only expect to provide the service they agreed to in the hunt they donated.

If anyone of the 3 req'd players in this game starts feeling its not worthwhile or worse, you'll see the game change.

Case in point, I talked to one outfitter this year at SCI that has had enough of it. I won't say who that was, but suffice to say it was not HartzView. This outfitter has stopped doing donations to SCI. They've had enough of it all and do not feel it's worth the investment. And they don't care if they get kicked out of having a booth at the convention. They feel as though with their established clientele and referrals from them, they sell plenty of hunts without having to be at the convention.

How many other outfitters feel the same way, I don't know. But if a few dominos fall.....

 

[thi9elsp]

Just my 2 cents, but it seems to me that for the donation hunt to be optimal, it needs to be a win win win situation.

DSC/SCI/Name Your Fav Org needs to have the donation hunts go for a reasonable amount of money to cover the costs of advertising it and whatever else as well as have it be meaningful. I.e. if they only make $100 on any given donation hunt, was it really worthwhile? I would think there is a point where too many auction hunts dilutes the value of those hunts and just makes for that many more auctions they have to handle. So I'd have to say there's a limit as to how many they take on. Where that limit is, I don't know.

Auction Buyers need the outfitters to come through with what was promised. It means nothing if someone buys a 10 day hunt with 5 animals included for a $500 if they see nothing but substandard animals, eat peanut butter & jelly sandwiches at each meal and hunt for 3 hours a day.

Outfitters need a win too. This is a business for them. I don't take issue whatsoever in the outfitter hoping for some positive reviews from the buyer, a few extra hunting days and/or trophies at normal prices perhaps even that the buyer will return for a normally paid to the outfitter hunt. Should they EXPECT this? No, they should only expect to provide the service they agreed to in the hunt they donated.

If anyone of the 3 req'd players in this game starts feeling its not worthwhile or worse, you'll see the game change.

Case in point, I talked to one outfitter this year at SCI that has had enough of it. I won't say who that was, but suffice to say it was not HartzView. This outfitter has stopped doing donations to SCI. They've had enough of it all and do not feel it's worth the investment. And they don't care if they get kicked out of having a booth at the convention. They feel as though with their established clientele and referrals from them, they sell plenty of hunts without having to be at the convention.

How many other outfitters feel the same way, I don't know. But if a few dominos fall.....

Phil,

I too know an outfitter that has stopped donating. He found very little follow-up from it. He's in Alaska. In actuality, he's even questioning his investment in doing the booth as he rarely books hunts at the conventions (DSC, SCI and Great American in Pennsylvania). He's a quality outfitter and is booked up one to two years in advance for most of his weeks.

Having been watching the auctions for the past four years it seems that the price is dependent on the value perceived and the economics. I'm seeing higher bids the last two years than 3 or 4 years ago. Some have suggested a reserve. I think that is what DSC and SCI try to do with the minimum starting bid, but it seems some of the items have to drop below those thresholds to get interest.

If I had not gotten the hunt I did at about 40% below retail, I could not have gone on it. And, I might still be longing for my first trip to Africa.

Lastly, I strongly feel that once a good is offered for donation, the donor has no more vested interest in the value it gets for the organization. The donor only then has the obligation to fulfill their commitment for what they donated. And, I think the buyer has an obligation to provide extra advertisement for the donor if everything is as was stated. Ann and I did a 1/2 page color ad for Chifuti and Safari Classics in the convention magazine the year following our hunt.

John

 

[gizmo]

"I too know an outfitter that has stopped donating. He found very little follow-up from it. He's in Alaska. In actuality, he's even questioning his investment in doing the booth as he rarely books hunts at the conventions (DSC, SCI and Great American in Pennsylvania). He's a quality outfitter and is booked up one to two years in advance for most of his weeks."

Here is my take on shows, I have a booth every year at the TTHA show in Ft.Worth. It is all about name recognition and contacts. From my experience few outfitters, big names or not, actually book hunts during the show. Those that do are generally people who intend on booking with a company and just want to meet the outfitter before putting up the cash. Honestly I'm happy if I book enough to pay for the expense of the show but the contacts I've made through other people there have more than paid for the expenses over the year. This coming just from my limited experience.

 

[PHOENIX PHIL]

Phil,

I too know an outfitter that has stopped donating. He found very little follow-up from it. He's in Alaska. In actuality, he's even questioning his investment in doing the booth as he rarely books hunts at the conventions (DSC, SCI and Great American in Pennsylvania). He's a quality outfitter and is booked up one to two years in advance for most of his weeks.

Having been watching the auctions for the past four years it seems that the price is dependent on the value perceived and the economics. I'm seeing higher bids the last two years than 3 or 4 years ago. Some have suggested a reserve. I think that is what DSC and SCI try to do with the minimum starting bid, but it seems some of the items have to drop below those thresholds to get interest.

If I had not gotten the hunt I did at about 40% below retail, I could not have gone on it. And, I might still be longing for my first trip to Africa.

Lastly, I strongly feel that once a good is offered for donation, the donor has no more vested interest in the value it gets for the organization. The donor only then has the obligation to fulfill their commitment for what they donated. And, I think the buyer has an obligation to provide extra advertisement for the donor if everything is as was stated. Ann and I did a 1/2 page color ad for Chifuti and Safari Classics in the convention magazine the year following our hunt.

John

I would say that was a win for all interested parties.

 

[Philip Glass]

I've had an experience with a donated safari. It was not good and I likely won't do it again. Suffice it to say I got screwed even though I upgraded days and animals. The only saving grace was that he did not have the animals (place was shot out) so he took us to another outfitter who will be taking me on another safari soon because it was such a great experience. Put it this way ,whether it is the client or the outfitter, on a donated hunt someone is likely to get screwed!

Regards,
Philip