Any point in a 'small' double rifle?

[nomienos]

A double on your first safari is definitely an intriguing thought, but not really a practical thought, UNLESS you’re willing to pass up a large percentage of your opportunities to shoot your buffalo. A scoped bolt action will provide way more shot opportunities both near and far. The obvious advantage of a scope can not be overstated when hunting in areas where you’re sometimes having to thread a bullet through a small hole in the brush, or take a longish shot on other game that may pop up.
But if you’re willing to buck the odds and use a double on your first safari, my vote would be for the 375 or 450/400. I suppose you could add a scope with removable mounts and have similar capabilities as a bolt rifle, but then you may as well just use a bolt gun to begin with.
As for the 470 or 500, you’re limiting yourself even more, as your best option with those would be a red dot sight with their inherent range/visibility disadvantage. But again, if you’re willing to accept these disadvantages, have fun! And if you do get your buffalo, I’m sure you’ll be back for more!

Ya, the practicality was something I was trying to not think of haha, but thank you very much. If I'm being honest, I assumed most dangerous game would be at under 50 meters hence not needing magnification. Interesting point on the red dot though, would that be something that a gunsmith could conjure up on any double? I think the point I was getting at was a double in .375 would feel like a waste sitting in the stable next to a .300 and .338, but the legal minimum for DG completely slipped my mind. And trust me, as much as I say I'm planning for that once in a lifetime trip, I have no plans to stop at 1!

 

[nomienos]

Welcome to the forum. I use my 416 Taylor in Ontario to take black bears and have carried it for whitetails, though haven’t shot one with it yet, but I will. If you want a 375 H&H double or larger buy it. Will the animal care that it has a quarter bore hole vs a forty five or fifty cal hole in it, no. Hunt with what you love and have fun doing it.

To be honest, I was almost trying to convince myself out of buying a .500, exclusively because I know I would use it way too often! I mean, coyotes and mulies obviously need a .500, right? I think I get too into looking for the exact "right" caliber for everything, and not just what both works and is fun. I mean, my first gun was a drilling in 9.3x74r, and I hunted nearly everything in the province with that from varmint to bear and had more fun than ever, so what the difference in a .500 for griz, moose, and the like?

 

[Altitude sickness]

My vote would be 9.3x74 Plenty of power for NA. Low recoil. A sweetheart to shoot. Cheap ammo. In a nice small framed rifle.

Darn it. Now I want one again

 

[VertigoBE]

A guy I talk to online has a very nice custom double made up in 22 hornet,

A sxs double rifle in .22 Hornet would be an amazing thing to own and shoot.

 

[BeeMaa]

I like how you are asking about a "small" double then go right to the 470NE and 500NE.

A double in 375H&H makes a ton of sense, but the lack of a rimmed case is a minor downfall when it comes to extraction/ejection. Moving up slightly to the 450/400NE (3 inch) is the next practical step that also has a rimmed case and great history. Another option would be the 500/416NE that is made to replicate the 416RIGBY ballistics in a double rifle rimmed case.

As for optics or not... I'm firmly in the "have magnified optics" camp, meaning I like something with an illuminated reticle, true 1x at low power and up to 6x or 8x magnification at the upper end. This would set in a quick disconnect (QD) mount. My preference is the Swaro Z8i line of scopes. At a minimum, I would want a very rugged and reliable red dot like the Trijicon RMR-HD or SRO, but that will limit my range for taking game to about 100 yards or less...mostly less.

The age and condition of your eyes is also a consideration. No one likes to admit it, but eyesight NEVER gets better with age. You can have surgery to make repairs but it will always be going downhill. As I have aged, I've found that I need more magnification than I did as a youngster.

Mounting on a double rifle. You are going to need a special mount to make this work. Depends on the rifle you buy and what optic you plan on using. For instance...buy a Blaser S2 in 500/416NE and you can put nearly any optic you wish in a Blaser QD mount. That Sabatti you are looking at in 500NE is going to require some custom fitting (meaning more money) to get a scope or red dot mounted.

Another consideration is regulation. The easiest way to do this is reloading yourself and testing the accuracy of each barrel. If you don't reload or know someone who does, it adds time to the process as well as money to get it done. Many used double rifles are sold with dies for this very reason.

IMO - If you REALLY want a double, get it...but understand that there are limitations to that platform vs a bolt action rifle. Not to mention the significant gap in price between the two of them. I would rather spend about $6K to $8K on a semi-custom bolt action rifle/scope combo that was DG proven reliable and capable of taking game out to 200 yards easily. Then put the additional double rifle money towards another animal on safari. Do your first trip with a bolt action DG legal rifle caliber and go from there.

A sxs double rifle in .22 Hornet would be an amazing thing to own and shoot.

That's what I was thinking when the title was a "small double rifle". Although I was going to say a 6.5x57R or even a 7x65R would be nice.

 

[nomienos]

I like how you are asking about a "small" double then go right to the 470NE and 500NE.

A double in 375H&H makes a ton of sense, but the lack of a rimmed case is a minor downfall when it comes to extraction/ejection. Moving up slightly to the 450/400NE (3 inch) is the next practical step that also has a rimmed case and great history. Another option would be the 500/416NE that is made to replicate the 416RIGBY ballistics in a double rifle rimmed case.

As for optics or not... I'm firmly in the "have magnified optics" camp, meaning I like something with an illuminated reticle, true 1x at low power and up to 6x or 8x magnification at the upper end. This would set in a quick disconnect (QD) mount. My preference is the Swaro Z8i line of scopes. At a minimum, I would want a very rugged and reliable red dot like the Trijicon RMR-HD or SRO, but that will limit my range for taking game to about 100 yards or less...mostly less.

The age and condition of your eyes is also a consideration. No one likes to admit it, but eyesight NEVER gets better with age. You can have surgery to make repairs but it will always be going downhill. As I have aged, I've found that I need more magnification than I did as a youngster.

Mounting on a double rifle. You are going to need a special mount to make this work. Depends on the rifle you buy and what optic you plan on using. For instance...buy a Blaser S2 in 500/416NE and you can put nearly any optic you wish in a Blaser QD mount. That Sabatti you are looking at in 500NE is going to require some custom fitting (meaning more money) to get a scope or red dot mounted.

Another consideration is regulation. The easiest way to do this is reloading yourself and testing the accuracy of each barrel. If you don't reload or know someone who does, it adds time to the process as well as money to get it done. Many used double rifles are sold with dies for this very reason.

IMO - If you REALLY want a double, get it...but understand that there are limitations to that platform vs a bolt action rifle. Not to mention the significant gap in price between the two of them. I would rather spend about $6K to $8K on a semi-custom bolt action rifle/scope combo that was DG proven reliable and capable of taking game out to 200 yards easily. Then put the additional double rifle money towards another animal on safari. Do your first trip with a bolt action DG legal rifle caliber and go from there.


That's what I was thinking when the title was a "small double rifle". Although I was going to say a 6.5x57R or even a 7x65R would be nice.

Thanks for the amazing insight! Like I said, I think I read too much, to me a double will always be a massive caliber! And thank you for bringing up the optic front, I never would have thought of adding a red dot before you and others brought it up. I suppose I thought a big bore would be too hard on a true magnified optic. Thankfully, I'm still young enough to have good(ish) eyes, and most of my hunting is done with irons to begin with. As much as always being a dream, I only seriously thought of a double after setting up a nice mountain gun setup and was hoping to bring that as a second gun. But like I said, the trip is still a ways out so I will probably come to my senses and just get something practical by then haha!

 

[BeeMaa]

Thanks for the amazing insight! Like I said, I think I read too much, to me a double will always be a massive caliber! And thank you for bringing up the optic front, I never would have thought of adding a red dot before you and others brought it up. I suppose I thought a big bore would be too hard on a true magnified optic. Thankfully, I'm still young enough to have good(ish) eyes, and most of my hunting is done with irons to begin with. As much as always being a dream, I only seriously thought of a double after setting up a nice mountain gun setup and was hoping to bring that as a second gun. But like I said, the trip is still a ways out so I will probably come to my senses and just get something practical by then haha!

I prefer to travel light with just one rifle for a hunting trip that includes flights. My current set up is a Blaser R8 in 375H&H in a Pelican 1700 case. It has wheels and with one other piece of checked luggage and a carry-on is easy to move through a busy airport.

If you were to go this route with the Blaser R8, the Pelican 1700 has enough room for a second complete rifle if it's a takedown model like a double. Many here on AH have cut custom foam for this specific case. The other option would be for two barrels for the R8 which is still (technically) just one complete rifle.

 

[Challer]

Buy a Blaser Bergstutzen double...one barrel in 9.3x74R the other in 6.5x57R......

One gun one barrel set 2 calibers.....sorted

I have the Blaser BBF with both 9.3 and 06 barrel sets. It’s great fun for stalking but not driven game. Extremely light, compact, a pleasure. Still the R8 gets the nod most of the time

 

[Philip Glass]

First time poster so forgive mistakes, but I'm planning my first trip to Africa (probably still a few years out) and I'm starting to think more about guns to bring so I figured who better to enable me than AH. Specifically, I was thinking about buying a double rifle because to me, my first hunting trip to Africa wouldn't feel proper without a double rifle (yes I have read way too many books featuring big doubles). This has me stuck on if I should get a more practical and usable double in something like .375 H&H or 9.3x74r (this would probably be most practical as I have a Merkel drilling in the same chambering), or to get a "proper" double in .450 or .500 NE. I have the opportunity to buy a decently priced Sabatti Big Five in .500, and it's tempting me, but I know as a fact I will never use it here in BC, Canada. This leads to my main question which is, is there any real point in a double in a 'small' caliber, that can be matched with similar bolt guns? Are there any advantages if not that it can take a big F you caliber like .45+? Additionally, as much as I never need an excuse to buy new guns, does anyone here find uses with doubles in North America/ not Africa? Would really appreciate any advice/experience/comments!

It is what ever you really like and want to hunt with. Since you have never been on safari you have no idea how the bug is going to bite. You don't know what that second safari will look like. I have settled quite nicely with my .375's and the .450/400 double rifle. That pretty much covers it!

 

[PerH]

I know about a Blaser bbf in .22 h and 7x57r , it’s zeroed with scope and quite a versatile specialized tool to use .

 

[Challer]

I know about a Blaser bbf in .22 h and 7x57r , it’s zeroed with scope and quite a versatile specialized tool to use .

Yes. I also have 20G/.22H barrel. Most fun in a gun I have. A classic barn gun critter git’r

 

[uplander01]

Chapuis iphisi, scope it and go hunt.

 

[Hillcountry63]

I acquired a Sabatti 9.3x74r double with a Trijicon RMR 2moa red dot this past fall for still hunting/stalking. Since then its taken two whitetail and two hogs. It will be going with me to SA in July and plan on using it this fall on black bear and hogs. I’m waiting on a 30-06 I recently ordered also. If you want one, get one and don’t be discouraged by some that say you’ve got to have this or that…..you do you and be happy.

 

[AN.87]

A 9.3x74r in a double can be very versatile. Although rather a medium than a small bore. With a red dot or 1-6 scope you can handle anything up to 100-150y. In some countries enough for a buffalo. Go for it. Shoot a bucket full of rounds at your range or hunts near home. Get to know your weapon. Apply what is written about it. It's a different style than a bolt. But in a year you can learn a lot. Ready for your trip to africa. And in the meantime addicted to DR.

Deerhunt, plains game in bushy areas. It will come into its own beautifully.

It doesn't have to be an exclusively hunting one either. Target shooting is just as fun and usefull

A 7 or 8mm ditto, but I would rule out the big plainsgame. And DG.

 

[revturbo9967]

A double on your first safari is definitely an intriguing thought, but not really a practical thought, UNLESS you’re willing to pass up a large percentage of your opportunities to shoot your buffalo. A scoped bolt action will provide way more shot opportunities both near and far. The obvious advantage of a scope can not be overstated when hunting in areas where you’re sometimes having to thread a bullet through a small hole in the brush, or take a longish shot on other game that may pop up.
But if you’re willing to buck the odds and use a double on your first safari, my vote would be for the 375 or 450/400. I suppose you could add a scope with removable mounts and have similar capabilities as a bolt rifle, but then you may as well just use a bolt gun to begin with.
As for the 470 or 500, you’re limiting yourself even more, as your best option with those would be a red dot sight with their inherent range/visibility disadvantage. But again, if you’re willing to accept these disadvantages, have fun! And if you do get your buffalo, I’m sure you’ll be back for more!

Fully agree. A double is certainly a cool idea for a first safari but not practical. Until one is very very well versed with shooting conditions in Africa, a scoped bolt rifle is a much better option. If I had a double as my only rifle on my hunt, I would have had to pass up just about everything other than my buffalo and hippo. I bought my first double recently and still not sure if I’d bring it to Africa, I like having odds in my favor.

 

[AZDAVE]

9.3x74 is a very solid choice as a Africa and North America gun. It is enough for anything in NA dorm squirrel to Brown bear. My 9.3 Chapuis is my favorite rifle in the safe. On the bigger side I have shot, 450/400, 500/416, 450NE, 470 NE, 500NE and 577NE. The 450/400 and 500/416 are the most versatile of the 40+ CAL. For the small doubles I have a 8x57JRS and a 7x65R. Both are solid plains game and elk and smaller NA rounds. I have a Hyem 7x65 that is for sale.


My first safari I took a 9.3x74 single shot and 450NE double. As long as you understand the limitations you place on a double for your first safari I say take a double and a bolt gun and go have fun.

 

[revturbo9967]

Ya, the practicality was something I was trying to not think of haha, but thank you very much. If I'm being honest, I assumed most dangerous game would be at under 50 meters hence not needing magnification. Interesting point on the red dot though, would that be something that a gunsmith could conjure up on any double? I think the point I was getting at was a double in .375 would feel like a waste sitting in the stable next to a .300 and .338, but the legal minimum for DG completely slipped my mind. And trust me, as much as I say I'm planning for that once in a lifetime trip, I have no plans to stop at 1!

One thing to note, just because the shots may be close, does not mean visibility will be good. Most shots on Buffalo are in thick cover and you will not be able to make much of the animal out due to shadows and tall grass or jess. Many have to pass shots up with a double due to visibility. If you want a double, buy a double and don’t look back, but I’d certainly consider a scoped bolt gun for any safari.

 

[IvW]

I think if you have the BBF
9.3x74R/6.5×57R set
12ga/7×57R set

And the a K95 7x65R you wil have the perfect pg combination.

O/U is better for the smaller bores, easier to scope and the regulate easy with adjustable barrel

 

[Hunter-Habib]

To answer your questions:

Double rifles chambered in 9.3x74mmR are very popular for hunting driven boar, moose & red stag in Continental Europe. As are the smaller rimmed calibers such as 8x57mmJRS or 7x65mmR. When I was studying Environmental Management in the University of London in 1965, I had the good fortune to hunt red stag at a Scottish friend’s estate. My friend’s father was armed with a John Rigby & Co. sidelock ejector chambered in .22 Savage Hi-Power. Using the now discontinued Winchester 71Gr soft point factory load, the gentleman was scoring lightning like kills on red stags with the neck shot.

Big bore double rifles can be used to hunt bison or bear in the Americas. And all of the feral cattle species in Australia. Depending upon how well you can stalk them to within 50 yards range, I also wouldn’t hesitate to use them on elk or moose or caribou.

 

[86thecat]

Double rifle in 470.
Scoped bolt in 375, H&H or R.
Side by side 12 ga shotgun, with same feel and function (safety etc) as double rifle. Small game/bird hunting with shotgun builds speed and familiarity with stopping rifle.