Any Issues with 375 H&H Belted Mag in quality Double Rifle?

SCmackey

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I have read about potential issues with ejectors and with accuracy because of head spacing off of the belt. Yet, there are a number of quality offerings of this combination, as well as 416 rigby by Heym. Would appreciate thoughts from the forum. Thanks
 
In a good quality rifle ejection works well. I have a Heym 88b and the ejectors are great. On a non ejector it would be an issue but a good quality ejector works well, Westley Richard’s figured it out a long time ago. Of course ejectors for rimmed cases are simpler, and theoretically more foolproof. As far as accuracy goes there are no issues.

My only issue is one that I never see mentioned by anyone else, perhaps because I am very very picky about the tiny details of how my rifles fit and function. My one dislike is that due to the spring loaded detente on the ejectors you have to push the rounds into the chamber, you can’t just put the tip in, drop it in and slam the breech shut like you can on a rimned round or a shotgun.

If I were a PH looking for a stopping rifle I would insist on a rimmed cartridge, but as a client hunter I don’t think it’s an insurmountable problem and the easy availability of ammo and components is a real bonus.

These are just my personal thoughts. I do admit that my double rifle experience is limited. I have a 9.3x74R and a .375 H&H, both ejector guns. I am awaiting import of a Krieghoff 500-416 NE non-ejector.
 
I would not be too worried about head spacing or accuracy, SCmackey, but there is no escaping the fact that the spring-loaded detents that secure the belted rimless cases in the ejectors or extractors are more complex and delicate, hence more prone to failure, than ejectors or extractors designed for rimmed cases. It is just mechanics 101.

It is a fact that they do work most of the times, and many users may never experience any failure to extract / eject, but it is also a fact that they sometimes fail, even in the highest quality rifles. How lucky do you feel?

A good alternative to the .375 H&H in a double, if the purpose is to get more ballistic flexibility than the .470 or .500 offer, is to consider the modern 500/.416 which duplicates the performance of the .416 Rigby.

In the end, because the .375 should NOT be used as a "stopper" caliber (it lacks power for the purpose), hence the consequence of a failure to extract / eject is likely just annoyance -- as opposed to failure to reload in time to stop a charge; and because a client user is backed by a PH with more serious artillery when hunting DG, I would not necessarily pass on a .375 H&H double, but this would be with the specific understanding that I do not rely on it as a "stopper".


EDIT: as I read Canadaboy's input after posting my response (I was typing when he posted), I observe a similarity of concepts... My own experience with doubles was with 9.3x74 in Europe, then .450 #2 and .470, but I am off the doubles bandwagon (recently resold my Krieghoff .470) and have become a Blaser R8 only gunner. My second shot (whether it be with my .375 H&H or .458 Lott barrel) is very darn near as fast, as I am reloaded by the time I come down from recoil, and my third and fourth shots are light years faster... Beside, I gained infinitely more R8 practice in just a few years than I did in 30 years of doubles ownership...
 
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Thanks for info. I have a V-C 500 NE Dbl and 458 LOTT LARM mag rifle, so this would not be a stopper. Was intrigued by a very nice looking used double I saw. Thanks for the input!
 
@Mark A Ouellette has a Blaser S2 in 375H&H. I believe he’s said it’s incredibly accurate with shots to 200 yards easily possible on game with a proper optic. He would be able to comment on your concerns.

I would also second @One Day... with the 500/416NE as an upgrade over the 375H&H. Reasons I’d give are primarily the flanged cartridge that make manual extraction easier if you don’t want to use ejectors. The other obvious reason is the superior ballistics.
 
Works flawlessly in a Brno Super Express O/U....

HWL
 
Thanks @BeeMaa
The rimmed, low pressure cartridges are better choices for a double rifle than belted magnums. I state this owning a Blazer S2 in 375 H&H and a Heym in 458 Win.

Neither rifle has any problems with the spring loaded pawls that ensure extraction and/ or ejection.

Headspace issues? Who told you that? :) Maybe they referred to any break action gun or rifle, after thousands of rounds, the action may loosen and need to be put back on face. The higher pressure belted cartridges will in theory cause this type action to loosen faster than lower pressure rimmed cartridges. In theory, but overall these rifles on average don't fire 1,000 rounds in a lifetime. In face, not many centerfire hunting rifles do!

The above paragraph concerns a double rifle loosening up after shooting many rounds. A Heym in a high pressure chambering should last much longer without loosening up than an entry level double. Be careful what bargins you buy!

My Blaser is very accurate and is a space age marvel of engineering design!
My 40-year old .458 Heym regulates Cutting Edge Raptors and Safari Solids well enough for 100 yards kills on plains game. Note, I mounted a Trijicon SRO with a 1 MOA red dot which affords better accuracy for me or anyone requiring reading glasses. Long ago Jack O'Connor advised that when a man needs reading glasses, its time for him to switch from metallic sights to a scope.

Both rifles mentioned were offered to me a great prices. If I were buying new, I would select either a 450/400 or a 500/416 for a medium bore double. If fact, I think the 500/416 is a great chambering for a hunter/client double. A PH should however have a .45 bore or larger to save my bacon, if necessary!

All the above stated from mostly my experiance and a little opinion, if however someone offers you a well regulated .375 H&H at a great price, buy it! But and here's the twist, well regulated for a .375 is not the same as for a .470 or .500 NE. These large bore double rifles are mostly a single purpose weapon. They provide stopping power (even if not "stopping rifles") for large critters at close range that can and will kill you. While I like better regulation, two shots from each barrel in a 3" circle at 50 yards or meters is good regulation for .45 bore and larger.

Medium bore double rifles especially those chambered for .375 H&H should be much, much better than 3" at 50 meters! My aforementioned Blaser S2 shoots more like 4 shots in a 2" circle at 100 yards. I previously owned a Merkel in .375 with a scope that would shoot similar groups at 100 yards. Those rifles to me could hit accurately on targets or plains game to 200+ yards.

Buying a double is an experiance. How does it regulate what ammunition? If the seller cannot show you targets with factory ammo or handload data, one is taking a risk that the rifle will hit center with both barrels at much over 50 yards. BIg bore, okay fine. Medium bore, I want more accuracy at somewhat longer ranges.

Bottom line is that a medium bore, belted magnum double may be an excellant choice if it is well made like a Heym, Blaser, or in most cases a Merkel. My Merkel later developed trigger problems... Pawls to extract a cartridge function fine but may in time fail. Those double pawls on my .458 Heym still function perfectly after 40 years. Finally, yes higher pressure cartridges will put more stress on any action, bolt or break, than will lower pressure cartridges. That stated, I'd stay away from any entry level double in a high pressure cartridge.

The above is worth exactly what you paid for it.
 
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I think everyone has pretty much covered the subject. Though I am somewhat surprised we haven’t received a lecture from a traditionalist ranting about how a .375 is not a “proper” double rifle load because it lacks a rim or isn’t being used to poke large holes in things at fifty feet.

Continental makers have been building doubles in .375 for a 100 years. It is too useful a loading not to do so, and they really do have it figured out by now. I have owned two. My first was a lovely little Austrian rifle with claw mounts for a scope, and the second is my S2 Blaser which uses the Blaser mounting system. Both rifles easily mange MOA groups from each barrel and 4-shot composit groups of two inches at 1pm yards.

The S2 has been to Africa and taken everything from buffalo to duiker from 25 yards or nearly 250. Also, because of its design, the action can not shoot loose like a traditional A&D or sidelock action.
 
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