Am I being silly?

[Kevin Peacocke]

@ Kevin Peacocke
3 to 4 thou would be been better.
Bob

Hi Bob, at 6 thou, what do you think the chances of a head separation on first fire new brass would be? Not holding you to it, but trying to find a way forward that I can live with.

 

[Hunter4752001]

Kevin
CIP specification for .375 Fl Mag NE https://bobp.cip-bobp.org/en/tdcc_public?page=6&cartridge_type_id=2

If I'm reading the spec correctly, then the following applies.

Cartridge Rim thickness 1.52mm (0.0598") [ -0.25mm (-0.0098") I assume this to be the minus tolerance.]

Chamber Rim recess depth 1.55mm (0.0610")

How does this compare to your chambers?

 

[Bob Nelson 35Whelen]

Hi Bob, at 6 thou, what do you think the chances of a head separation on first fire new brass would be? Not holding you to it, but trying to find a way forward that I can live with.

@Kevin Peacocke.
6 thou is still excessive but you should get 2 to 3 reloads before separations happen.
I had an old SMLE 303 with 6 to eight thou headspace and I still got 3 reloads before I tossed the cases but these were mild loads.

If you are using full power loads I would check the cases for signs of separations after the first reload.
The manufacturer should be ashamed of themselves for not assisting you with your problem.
Bob

 

[Bob Nelson 35Whelen]

Hi Bob, at 6 thou, what do you think the chances of a head separation on first fire new brass would be? Not holding you to it, but trying to find a way forward that I can live with.

@Kevin Peacocke
This may not be a practical solution to your problem but have you tried seating the projectiles out further to be kissing the lands plus 2 to 3 thou.
This would allow the case to move back and head space off the lands.
Another solution is to neck the cases up to .40 cal then neck size back to 375 slowly unti the rim sits just a fraction proud and closing the action is a firm fit.
Basically you are forming a false shoulder for the case to form. After that just neck size..
It will work but you shouldn't have to that to start with. Luckily it is the flanges case.
Bob

 

[Kevin Peacocke]

Hi Hunter, my gunsmith measured it by measuring a particular Bertams case flange, then inserting it and measuring the head space above it. So adding the flange thickness back in I get bottom recess 58.0 thou, top 62.0 thou. So if your 61 thou is what it should be then we are ok? Which brings me back to my previous summation that the real problem here was more to do with the excessive barrel to breach gap and the resulting minimal locking sear engagement???
the gun was regulated with Norma PH, flange thickness 55.51 thou. If I get those do you think I will now be ok, bearing in mind I have managed to get the barrel to breach gap down to 2.5 thou now? So total head space would be 8.99 thou. Is that ok? Or do I need to find Nosler brass, in which case the total head space would be 6.23 thou?

 

[Bob Nelson 35Whelen]

Hi Hunter, my gunsmith measured it by measuring a particular Bertams case flange, then inserting it and measuring the head space above it. So adding the flange thickness back in I get bottom recess 58.0 thou, top 62.0 thou. So if your 61 thou is what it should be then we are ok? Which brings me back to my previous summation that the real problem here was more to do with the excessive barrel to breach gap and the resulting minimal locking sear engagement???
the gun was regulated with Norma PH, flange thickness 55.51 thou. If I get those do you think I will now be ok, bearing in mind I have managed to get the barrel to breach gap down to 2.5 thou now? So total head space would be 8.99 thou. Is that ok? Or do I need to find Nosler brass, in which case the total head space would be 6.23 thou?

@Kevin Peacocke
Any thing you can do to minimize the issue has got to be good.
Bob

 

[Kevin Peacocke]

@Kevin Peacocke
This may not be a practical solution to your problem but have you tried seating the projectiles out further to be kissing the lands plus 2 to 3 thou.
This would allow the case to move back and head space off the lands.
Another solution is to neck the cases up to .40 cal then neck size back to 375 slowly unti the rim sits just a fraction proud and closing the action is a firm fit.
Basically you are forming a false shoulder for the case to form. After that just neck size..
It will work but you shouldn't have to that to start with. Luckily it is the flanges case.
Bob

Hi Bob, this came in after what I sent to Hunter. I am liking the idea of seating higher and spacing on the lands. I would have to set it up for the bottom barrel and when that is face flush with just the 2.5 thou gap space allowance, the top would be 4 thou deeper with 6.5 thou total head space.

 

[IvW]

I can already see it.....hunting buff or tusk less in the valley.....late Oct...hot dry in the thick stuff, you take the first shot and back it up with the second barrel, you go to open the rifle and it wont open or it opens and the half of the cases are left in the chambers or it pops open after the first shot...there is no time to find a suitable tree to climb....

This is my concern......

 

[Kevin Peacocke]

Y

I can already see it.....hunting buff or tusk less in the valley.....late Oct...hot dry in the thick stuff, you take the first shot and back it up with the second barrel, you go to open the rifle and it wont open or it opens and the half of the cases are left in the chambers or it pops open after the first shot...there is no time to find a suitable tree to climb....

This is my concern......

Yes, you are right. If the recess isnt fixed it really reverts to a range gun, or PG perhaps, but it is ill suited to that. So the wuestion is, how to fix it? My idea is to bore it deeper with the flange cutter, solder in a collar and re-cut the cartridge profile and the the flange recess. The collar need only be about 3mm deep, hardly a big operation. What do you think? Is there someone you know in SA who could do this precise work?

 

[Wyatt Smith]

I’m no expert Kevin, but I think .006 would be okay for new brass. You could probably reload if you only neck size.

 

[Hogpatrol]

No word back from the manufacturer? The holidays are long gone and the virus excuse is worn thin. I would have thought they would have had some sort of communication by now.

 

[Kevin Peacocke]

No word back from the manufacturer? The holidays are long gone and the virus excuse is worn thin. I would have thought they would have had some sort of communication by now.

I sent another email to VC today, copied the sellers in Jhb. Then phoned the sellers and expressed my dissatisfaction once more. Then an hour later I got a reply from VC requesting my phone number! So hopefully tomorrow they will phone and we can move forward.

 

[Hogpatrol]

I sent another email to VC today, copied the sellers in Jhb. Then phoned the sellers and expressed my dissatisfaction once more. Then an hour later I got a reply from VC requesting my phone number! So hopefully tomorrow they will phone and we can move forward.

Very good! As others have posted, I would not jury rig this firearm. Let them make good on it.

 

[IvW]

Y

Yes, you are right. If the recess isnt fixed it really reverts to a range gun, or PG perhaps, but it is ill suited to that. So the wuestion is, how to fix it? My idea is to bore it deeper with the flange cutter, solder in a collar and re-cut the cartridge profile and the the flange recess. The collar need only be about 3mm deep, hardly a big operation. What do you think? Is there someone you know in SA who could do this precise work?

Yes I know somebody

 

[Kevin Peacocke]

Yes I know somebody

Thanks IvW. Let's see what VC has to say and if that goes nowhere i'll PM you for the details if I may.

 

[yhc]

I am still baffled by VC’s slow response to your issue. Many of us have called out to VC on this post in addition to your emails, etc.

As an owner of a VC DR, I am disappointed @VERNEY-CARRON COLLECTION. Hopefully they will make things right for you Kevin.

 

[IvW]

I actually sent them a PM earlier today regarding....no response yet.....a pity Jerome has left to Rigby..he would have been all over this...

 

[Kevin Peacocke]

I actually sent them a PM earlier today regarding....no response yet.....a pity Jerome has left to Rigby..he would have been all over this...

Thanks IvW. I wonder why he left? He was a more natural fit at VC and the lived VC. Boy he did a good job for them. I am not so sure he is a great fit at Rigby though.

 

[IvW]

Not sure myself but I am starting to wonder......

 

[CJW]

Please just put this gun away until it is properly fixed by VC or a very reputable smith. I don't understand why anyone would even contemplate trying to fire this rifle this way or that until it has had 50 or 100 rounds put through it by VC and proven it is fixed with the brass coming out in perfect condition and action staying locked like it should with properly loaded rounds.

Not trying to step on any toes here but your safety just isn't worth it and VC should step up and get this fixed in short order. That would be my only focus and frankly if it were my company I would shelve this rifle and give you a new one. It never should have left the factory in this condition. I'm sure you have other guns to shoot in the meantime.