Alaska: Heli hunting on Brownbears

[Sabre]

One man’s outrageous is another man’s bargain. The worst hunting or fishing client in the world is the one who can’t afford to be there.

You really think so? I have seen a lot of really great clients who barely scraped the money together to be on a hunt, and probably should have used the money more wisely for something else. And I have seen a lot of rich a**holes who were way worse clients and treated guides/PHs like sh*t.

I think what makes a client good or bad has way less to do with how much money they make and a lot more to do with how they were raised and their individual personality.

 

[GuttormG]

You haven't lived until you are 5 miles from the trailhead and your partner says that he had lunch covered. Then he pulls out a package of Fig Newtons and a piss warm can of Pepsi

Back when I was young, like 30kilos ago, we hunted cormorants. Usually by setting up a blind under or near places we observed them flying.
We also know that there was good place to hunt on some small islands some good distance from shore (about 10 miles out), out of reach for us having only 12-14 feet open boats with small outboards.
So we came up with a plan, we, 3 guys, wanted to get out there and hunt a few days. Work was distributed
I was to arrange transport (local fisherman, transport out on day 1, pickup/return day 4
Friend no 1 to arrange tent and camp stuff.
Friend no 2 to arrange provisions.

All set and of we went. Perfect conditions, not to nice weather, not to bad for us. The cormorants would been flying low and close.
Camp was set up, time for some food!
And what had this genius brought? Sliced bread and canned macrell. And some cheap mixed fruit juice.

More then 30years later this guy is still not trusted any task related to food or supplies.

 

[DieJager]

Also in the case of brown/grizzly bears shooting adult males likely helps the population to grow because they will kill cubs to breed with the female. I believe the cubs stay with mother at least two years.

You're right that the comparison is hard to make especially for the greater part of Europe maybe except the northern parts of Scandinavia.

Last part really hits the nail. Everybody seems to want an adult male. That is even counterproductive to reducing the population as your argument is. You need to shoot the cubs AND the females. In that order also of course, not shooting the mother first. Then you can also take out some of them males.

It is somewhat similar in lots of parts where I live western Europe where hunters do not want to shoot the females because otherwise there are less animals to hunt. But is primarily the basis for hunting to be allowed where I live. It is mostly that, to reduce the population and prevent human/animal conflicts. Like lots of traffic accidents. If we don't control the population, they will eventually take our hunting rights away because we do not do or jobs. Of course that is not the case I think in the US.

 

[Raven]

And everyone wants a 10’ footer even though they are hard to find even in Kamchatka

Currently, approximately 25,000 bears live in Kamchatka. The number of giants among them is practically not decreasing.

But a lot depends on luck. Someone finds a giant in a day, and someone has to search for 10 days. And someone doesn't have enough patience, he shoots the first big bear he sees.

The bad thing is that prices for the trophy are rising every year. But it's still cheap when compared to Alaska.

 

[Scott CWO]

i work for an outfitter on the peninsula, it is a pretty remote part of the world. i can't speak to other outfitters, but our hunts are not cheap. however, there is quite a lot of overhead on our hunts. we hunt off a 65' boat, 4 hunters (maybe an observer) 4 guides and crew. the cost of the boat is substantial, and we hunt exclusively on native land which is leased. again not cheap. then of course food, fuel and guides all add to the cost of the hunt in a very remote area where fuel is $10+ a gallon.

to @Red Leg point above, it might be less expensive to hunt europe. although, i did look at a hunt in romania, the trophy fee is associated with the size of the bear and i believe they did not let a huge bear out of the country.

regardless, it is expensive to hunt on the alaskan peninsula, even for a resident. i still have to pay to fly out there, hire a aircraft or boat to drop me off, etc.

i was not aware of the culling operation, but there are lots of bears out there. @Scott CWO has lots of experience out there and maybe he will chime in here and add to the conversation.

@Red Leg European bears are not as big as Peninsula bears. They are closer in size to the bears on the ABC Islands in SE Alaska. We have the biggest brown bears in the world mid-way and further down the Alaska Peninsula or I wouldn’t be there. Take a look at pictures of Russian and European bears compared to this bear.

Lots of Russians claim 9’ & 10’ bears but I see 8’ bears in their pictures and sometimes a 9’ bear. Lots of BS and shenanigans going on with the tape measure and pictures. This bear was an honest 10’6” and the hide without skull and feet weighed 121 pounds when weighed by the charter company, Lake Clark Air. No trick photography here. About half of the bears I guide are 10’+ and the rest are 9’+.

Yes the costs of boats and Supercub aircraft are very high. We just ordered our fuel barge for the Spring of 2026. It was $46,000 just for the Supercub fuel. Sometimes we need more and book charter flights for a few more barrels during the season. Those flights are $9000 EACH WAY not including the cost of the fuel. We are 500 miles from Anchorage. Then there’s food and a cook for base camp. We joke that an egg costs $10 by the time we get it to a spike camp. All our hunters, guides and observers fly to/from spike camp via Supercub. An insurance policy for one Supercub (we run three) is $15,000. We have to fly the Supercubs down there and back from the mainland as well and this can take 2-3 days each way depending on weather and pilots don’t fly for free.

Perhaps what we are doing is nuts but if you want to guide or hunt the biggest brown bears on earth, it’s the price we pay.

 

[Scott CWO]

Yes, operating costs across the board have gone up. Of course Alaska is going to be more expensive than many easier locations. But pretending that overhead/operating costs are the reason why brown bear/grizzly hunts are so expensive is silly. If that were true, their black bear hunts would also cost almost the same.

They are so expensive because almost everyone wants one, and because outfitters realized they could charge much more and still get enough clients to pay themselves well for less hunts.

That is the reason why grizzly, elk, mule deer, and whitetail hunt prices have gone up so drastically. Although there are supposedly less hunters overall, the hunters that are still hunting are hunting more hours, they are often more educated than in the past, and many more want to travel to get more species. Influenced by endless supply of hunting shows telling them it's the best ever.

I have had many outfitters tell me essentially the same thing, phrased slightly differently from each one. "Why would I take 10 guys for $5,000 each when I can take 5 guys for $10,000 each and make the same money with less work and less animals out of the herd."

It's supply and demand, plain and simple. If all of the wealthy people suddenly decided they didn't need another bull elk tomorrow, you would see prices for elk hunts drop drastically to working person's prices and the outfitter would take more people at a lower price per animal to make the same wages.

There’s no black bear on the Alaska Peninsula once you get a little past the mainland base of the peninsula. We operate 500 air miles from Anchorage and there are no roads.

 

[gbflyer]

You really think so? I have seen a lot of really great clients who barely scraped the money together to be on a hunt, and probably should have used the money more wisely for something else. And I have seen a lot of rich a**holes who were way worse clients and treated guides/PHs like sh*t.

I think what makes a client good or bad has way less to do with how much money they make and a lot more to do with how they were raised and their individual personality.

Yes. Folks with jets are awesome. Folks making credit card payment are uber needy.

 

[deewayne2003]

Many don’t know this, but the refineries in Alaska cannot manufacture AvGas. We brought some in from as far away as Kansas when I was running a refinery up there. The cost is out of sight.

@WAB - I certainly didn't know this and it came as a surprise with Alaska having the highest concentration of pilots per capita of any state.

More curious as to why AvGas cannot be produced there?

 

[deewayne2003]

One man’s outrageous is another man’s bargain. The worst hunting or fishing client in the world is the one who can’t afford to be there.

I would have to respectfully disagree with this statement.

The average net worth of the clients I guided in the past have a net worth of eight figures+ and are not paying to be there, their invited on these hunts as entertainment/kick backs for the multi million dollar checks they cut the the ranch owners company for construction contracts.

Every once in a while one of these big wigs has a schedule conflict and pawns the hunt off on one of their lowly subordinates who would never be able to afford such a hunt..... and I love guiding these guys because all the arrogance of wealth and age difference gets left behind.

 

[Wahoo]

Yes. Folks with jets are awesome. Folks making credit card payment are uber needy.

Well crap. I guess I need to get an apology card in the mail to the PH I went with. I don’t have a jet(s)…

 

[Raven]

I haven't mentioned this before because I don't think it's germane to the original post, but most of the natives/locals here - and I only have experience with SW Alaska - have no regard for brown bears. They don't like them near towns because they are perceived as dangerous and destructive, and not many people hunt them. They are absolutely seen as a threat to caribou and moose. There are a fair amount of bears that are discreetly shot and disposed of when they get too close to towns and homes. I doubt those killings have any level of impact on actual populations but they do, IMHO, speak to the level of regard people have for them. My 2 cents from my corner of the world.

That's interesting. Tell me, are there people in Alaska who are specifically engaged in shooting aggressive bear when they enter towns and villages?

Are there self-defense units against bears?

 

[gbflyer]

Well crap. I guess I need to get an apology card in the mail to the PH I went with. I don’t have a jet(s)…

Y’all are welcome to disagree. I’ve seen them all. This is my experience.

 

[Scott CWO]

That's interesting. Tell me, are there people in Alaska who are specifically engaged in shooting aggressive bear when they enter towns and villages?

Are there self-defense units against bears?

Alaska State Troopers (State police and wildlife officer rolled into one job) do it. Otherwise, citizens can kill a DLP bear but must turn it in. DLP is Defense of Life and Property.

 

[Tundra Tiger]

That's interesting. Tell me, are there people in Alaska who are specifically engaged in shooting aggressive bear when they enter towns and villages?

Are there self-defense units against bears?

Self-defense units? Not in the sense that I think you mean.

There are bears that get shot and not reported, and my own opinion is that people don't always wait for them to be aggressive - the mere fact they are in town is justification enough. Mind you, that's not how I see bears, but it's sure how a lot of folks in rural communities see them.

 

[Tundra Tiger]

Alaska State Troopers (State police and wildlife officer rolled into one job) do it. Otherwise, citizens can kill a DLP bear but must turn it in. DLP is Defense of Life and Property.

Yes, that's how it's supposed to work. Key phrase "supposed to"...

 

[Raven]

Take a look at pictures of Russian and European bears compared to this bear...
Lots of Russians claim 9’ & 10’ bears but I see 8’ bears in their pictures and sometimes a 9’ bear. Lots of BS and shenanigans going on with the tape measure and pictures.

You know, I think it's not very correct to compare Alaska bears with European bears. Of course, Alaska bears are bigger. There is no such serious food supply in Europe, and the European animals themselves are smaller. People often talk about Romanian bears, but my friend hunted there and was unhappy with the size of his trophy.

Finland? Sweden? Bears are hardly big there. And in the European part of Russia, the bears are not gigantic. The Siberian bear is already bigger. And there is Chukotka, where they are even more numerous. But the biggest bears in Russia live on Sakhalin Island and on the Kamchatka Peninsula. Sakhalin is not such a famous place, and hunters from all over the world go to Kamchatka. There are good reviews on this forum. For example: https://www.africahunting.com/threads/kamchatka-moose-hunt-2022.67375/post-1236570

I respect your work. I know what organizing hunts is. And I know how easy it is to go bankrupt, even if you do everything right. That's what I don't want to do in my life. Not this one!

The debate about where the biggest bears live is endless. The main thing is that people can afford such a hunt. I often hear from people that big bear hunting is too expensive. And I always advise: guys, find an ordinary hunter, an experienced one who lives in the forest, he will charge you a modest amount of money.

There is a story about such a case in this topic: https://www.africahunting.com/threads/alaska-heli-hunting-on-brownbears.89413/post-1355761

This is a great example. But there aren't many people like George Faerber. However, they do exist. We just need to find them.

And I use the services of such hunters myself. And those who have the financial opportunity to apply to a serious hunting company will receive completely different conditions, they will have a better chance of shooting a giant.

 

[Foxi]

the bears on Kamtchatka and Kodiak and their neighbors will not differ in size.
The hunting tourism in Alaska is of course much bigger than in Kamtchatka (especially at the moment), so there are more pictures of big Alaskan bears there, but they don't give each other anything.
@Tundra Tiger
Parts of Europe have many bears, some countries have too many, and as always when you don't take the rural population with you politically, the people are often forced to help themselves.
Sometimes they are discreetly poisoned, which is easier for many farmers in the Carpathian Arc than taking up arms.
But some European bears are often as strong as your good inland grizzlies.
Here in the pic below is a bear from Sweden weighing 347 kg.
From 300kg it is really a lot of Grizzly bear
But no chance for foreigners to hunt Swedish bears there.

Romania has reopened the hunt for bears, but at the moment not more than 400 points.
That's around 200-250 kg. I guess what Ive seen there.

 

[WAB]

@WAB - I certainly didn't know this and it came as a surprise with Alaska having the highest concentration of pilots per capita of any state.

More curious as to why AvGas cannot be produced there?

The refining process required to make avgas is not part of the configuration of any of the Alaska refineries. There are actually relatively few refineries manufacturing avgas.

 

[WAB]

Alaska State Troopers (State police and wildlife officer rolled into one job) do it. Otherwise, citizens can kill a DLP bear but must turn it in. DLP is Defense of Life and Property.

DLP bears count against the quota for a unit. You are supposed to turn in the hide and the skull from a DLP bear. My buddy shot one off his horse. He called it in and they told him to bring in the hide and skull. He told them to come and get their damn bear out of his corral. They did.

 

[WAB]

@Red Leg European bears are not as big as Peninsula bears. They are closer in size to the bears on the ABC Islands in SE Alaska. We have the biggest brown bears in the world mid-way and further down the Alaska Peninsula or I wouldn’t be there. Take a look at pictures of Russian and European bears compared to this bear.View attachment 661279View attachment 661280

Lots of Russians claim 9’ & 10’ bears but I see 8’ bears in their pictures and sometimes a 9’ bear. Lots of BS and shenanigans going on with the tape measure and pictures. This bear was an honest 10’6” and the hide without skull and feet weighed 121 pounds when weighed by the charter company, Lake Clark Air. No trick photography here. About half of the bears I guide are 10’+ and the rest are 9’+.

Yes the costs of boats and Supercub aircraft are very high. We just ordered our fuel barge for the Spring of 2026. It was $46,000 just for the Supercub fuel. Sometimes we need more and book charter flights for a few more barrels during the season. Those flights are $9000 EACH WAY not including the cost of the fuel. We are 500 miles from Anchorage. Then there’s food and a cook for base camp. We joke that an egg costs $10 by the time we get it to a spike camp. All our hunters, guides and observers fly to/from spike camp via Supercub. An insurance policy for one Supercub (we run three) is $15,000. We have to fly the Supercubs down there and back from the mainland as well and this can take 2-3 days each way depending on weather and pilots don’t fly for free.

Perhaps what we are doing is nuts but if you want to guide or hunt the biggest brown bears on earth, it’s the price we pay.

I totally agree. I’ve seen a lot of Kamchatka bears claimed to be ten footers that looked a lot more like eight.