AK 47 questions

[Rocco490]

Yes 7.62x39 has a heck of a lot of drop and drift if you need to stretch it out any sort of distance making hits on target much harder not my pick if needing any "reach" also recoils more and ammo is heavier so cant carry as many rounds those were some reasons I believe for the military choice as they wanted easier full auto control and as many rounds as possible

 

[mdwest]

Combat vets will tell you that has very limited (to negligible) value in the fight though... No one is looking to shoot through cover like concrete and brick with a fighting rifle... even a battle rifle in 762x51, etc.. as a matter of routine.. its simply not part of anyones TTP's...

In a very specific situation or condition, MAYBE the tiny bit more hard target penetration capability of the x39 pays off...

But in the vast majority of scenarios youre going to run into in the fight its a non factor.. and in some scenarios it can even be a detriment (hostage rescue, building clearing with non combatants present, etc.. the last thing you want to do is try to shoot a bad guy, have your round miss and hit a brick wall, penetrate through, and tag some 9 year old girl sitting on her bed the next room over)...

I meant to add to this....

The US has at times looked at the potential value of additional hard target penetration and/or harder hitting rounds... but ultimately has always waived off on the idea.. its simply not been worth the trade off...

A good example is the .458 SOCOM... after Somalia, the SOF guys coming back made it very clear that they were underwhelmed with the performance of the 556 during the battle.. they werent able to adequately disable enemy combatant vehicles.. it wasnt reliably putting guys that were high on khat down after they received fatal hits, etc..

The .458 SOCOM was developed in light of this (among other options)..

After considerable testing, lots of research, and tons of money spent trying to figure out the best possible solution to the problem... the idea that a bigger / heavier caliber was needed was passed upon... better ammunition for the 556 was developed instead..

 

[C.W. Richter]

You may wish to look into the myriad, abandoned yacht and personal aircraft here and there in the world (many containing a cache of AKs aboard!) Entire, former staff awaiting your hire. Bring Rosetta Stone! Israel seems to be a hot-bed at the moment (the Defections don't seem to free up the cash for the former owner/thiefs.)

 

[Rob404]

Never had any interest in Aks or any other AR type rifle I only own one because I got it cheap. but I keep it away from my bolt guns I don't need any Skank affecting my nice stuff

 

[C.W. Richter]

Was it the Needmore that was actually an invention to be coupled with the AR? That would be a nice upgrade to .224" caliber. 130-140 gr's gonna leave a mark. 257 would be interesting, too...Wars might end sooner (a la those featuring .308" slugs way back when!) Most are for profiteering-only these days...

 

[Rocco490]

Combat vets will tell you that has very limited (to negligible) value in the fight though... No one is looking to shoot through cover like concrete and brick with a fighting rifle... even a battle rifle in 762x51, etc.. as a matter of routine.. its simply not part of anyones TTP's...

In a very specific situation or condition, MAYBE the tiny bit more hard target penetration capability of the x39 pays off...

But in the vast majority of scenarios youre going to run into in the fight its a non factor.. and in some scenarios it can even be a detriment (hostage rescue, building clearing with non combatants present, etc.. the last thing you want to do is try to shoot a bad guy, have your round miss and hit a brick wall, penetrate through, and tag some 9 year old girl sitting on her bed the next room over)...

I only mentioned it as penetration and sectional density were referenced comparing the two and the 223 is not a big penetrator nor does it have any bullet advantage in sectional density again if that matters to you many it will not. I have not shot larger game with either but have shot both at various materials and found the 7.62x39 to hit harder and go threw more than the 223/5.56 did. For hunting applications close range hog hunting if after a trophy size Boar I would absolutely have more confidence in the 7.62x39 getting threw the thick grizzle plate on large mature boar vs the 223 and would select it over the 223 for this purpose. Longer shots predator hunting I would pick the 223. Just supporting why I think they both have their strengths.

 

[mdwest]

In hunting scenarios I absolutely agree with you.. there are times the x39 presents an advantage...

Its not as inherently accurate.. it doesnt have as much effective range... but it does offer a straight line penetration advantage...

For pest control purposes I'll shoot a wild pig with anything I've got on hand.. if all Ive got with me is a 22 LR pistol I'll do my best to put a 32gr soft point in porkies ear... but hunting a pig at typical pig hunting distances if my only options are x39 or 556, I'll definitely grab the x39 first...

I just wouldnt grab it in an AK platform.. I'd grab an AR in x39 (Ive actually used one of these on a hog hunt about 3 years ago.. it was awesome for going after an entire sounder when coupled with the thermal optic that was mounted)...

 

[Rocco490]

above post is 100% agreed

 

[DG870]

My opinion only, but I would be more concerned about a reliable supply of quality ammo more than I would be concerned about the platform or caliber. Any firearm is only a club without ammo so I would seriously consider what ammo is more available where you live. I would purchase the firearm based on the locally available ammo supply.

 

[Rocco490]

Hopefully this all helps the original poster. I provided links to some recommended options. Not sure your reasons behind AK but if its for finding a semi auto chambered in the 7.62x39 look hard at the cmmg AR That would be my pick for setting one up. As you specifically mentioned AK messed with a few and if you want an AK specifically my pick would be Arsenal SAM7 milled. Have not tried out a galil but they seem interesting could be a good option if not wanting an AK specifically, the first gen I passed on because of the trigger maybe now there is an aftermarket upgrade or the gen 2 might have fixed this. Anyhow could be worth a look. Best of luck.

 

[Rocco490]

Forgot to mention along the lines of the galil the second gen Sig Sauer 556r I liked (not the first gen or the xi version). No longer produced and not sure of proprietary parts availability though so for a "hybrid" check out that galil

 

[Nyati]

Valmet RK 62, AK with Finnish quality !

 

[mdwest]

My opinion only, but I would be more concerned about a reliable supply of quality ammo more than I would be concerned about the platform or caliber. Any firearm is only a club without ammo so I would seriously consider what ammo is more available where you live. I would purchase the firearm based on the locally available ammo supply.

Agree.

20 years ago 762x39 was both significantly cheaper and was much easier to purchase by the case.. that combined with the low cost of getting into the most common rifles chambered in x39 (AK and SKS) made the AK extremely attractive to a lot of people...

Today I can get a 1000 round case of wolf (steel cased, NOT reloadable) x39 ammo for about $410 ($0.41 per round)... 1000 rounds of brass cased, reloadable x39 starts at about $525 ($0.53 per round)...

I can get 1000 rounds steel cased Tul 556 is about $425 ($0.43 per round)... a case of of PPU (brass cased, RELOADABLE) 556 for $510 ($0.51 per round)..

The cost difference is negligible..

And both are widely available... In fact there is A LOT more 556 on the shelf at both my local Cabelas and Scheels right now than there is x39...

 

[curtism1234]

If you just want one "just in case" and have no need for it otherwise, consider you can obtain it one way or the other if you ever truly need it. There are 20 million assault rifles in civilian circulation right now and only growing every day. I'd save your money and buy a rifle that brings you joy and can use

 

[Jamie D Van Roekel]

I own a few , but I bought them at a time when good ones were everywhere and fairly cheap. I have a Norinco that is balls out good stuff, I also have a couple Romanian tanker models that I trust to never let me down, but both of those models are extremely hard to find right now and they cost several times what they did 10 years ago.

The Galil, as mentioned above, would be a very good option, but again, they have shot up in price in the last couple years.

None of my AKs would be first choice if picking up a rifle to use it for the most serious of purposes, but having one and learning its manual of arms is important, so go get one and learn to run it well. As Clint Smith says, "Cario Illinois to Cario Egypt, there are AKs everywhere, you need to know how to pick up one up and run."

That’s funny. That’s kind of my thinking behind the whole idea. I don’t think I’m a wack job, but with what is going on in our country and the world I think it can’t hurt to know how to run a little of everything.

 

[ldmay375]

I am by no means an expert on anything, particularly AK’s. My theoretically take is, they ain’t built for beauty. Good finishes are great, but you are not going to hurt the looks by applying flat black paint if required. I have never thought, wow that is a pretty ak. Same applies to an ar. Utility grade looks for both, to my eyes.
The service grades have never been known for stellar accuracy, some better than others. Mechanical they are pretty simple. Service grade triggers seem to vary from satisfactory to near terrible. A trigger replacement might be a good idea
The sights are serviceable, but certainly not designed for shooting eggs at 100 meters.
From what I read the scope mount system is serviceable.
I think, I would prefer the rpk type forged trunnion and heavier sheet metal. The barrel, I would prefer the chrome lined. Particularly if I was recreationally shooting with surplus type ammo.

The 7.62x39 cartridge is an intermediate cartridge, more than a pistol cartridge and less than a 7.62x51. Supposedly designed for 300 meters and under.
I think for the cartridge, 150 meters as rather ideal maximum range fun, and 200 Far maximum, if the rifle is accurate and shooter can use the sights. I believe my happy hit targets would be in 6-8”diameters. Pretty much for me the same for a lever action 30-30.
I certainly do not think the bulk ammunition is loaded for maximum accuracy nor the projectiles that it is loaded with. As is in case with all bulk ammo.

For me I would prefer one over a semi-auto Thompson. I view the more true to original design ones as a bit more flexible than a semi-auto pistol cartridge rifle. They are rather compact, a folding stock stows in pretty short spaces with a 10 or even 20 magazine.
The 30 round magazines are more length than I would want, be it ak or ar. The 20’s stick out far enough for me. The 10’s are compact. I have nothing against the 30’s other than the space and the weight. Of course their is also the drum magazines also.
I assume the 300 Blackout cartridge is a more modern 7.62x39.

 

[PerH]

The best AK I ever tried was an East German made AKM..

But I will stick with my thrusty M14..

Ernst Thälmn Werke usually built them, other brands were Sauer,Merkel and so on.

Other special Ddr weaponry for MfS and so on were often built and developed J Ziegenhahn in Suhl

 

[mdwest]

I assume the 300 Blackout cartridge is a more modern 7.62x39.

ballistically they are very close..

the x39 delivers a tad more kinetic energy.. the BLK flies a little flatter and faster..

BLK ammo is more expensive though and not quite as readily available....

but if you reload, its a very good alternative to the x39 IMO if youre looking for the "30-30 AR".. brass is everywhere (necked up 556).. and bullets are everywhere (light 30 cal)..

That said.. FOR ME at least.. if youre looking for 30-30 ballistics out of an AR platform for HUNTING purposes... I'd go 350 Legend every day and twice on sunday...

Ammo is still pretty inexpensive for centerfire rifle ($16 for a box of 20 FMJ most places.. about $21 for soft points).. recoil is less than what youll experience with a typical bolt action .243... it hits a good bit harder on game than either the 300 BLK or x39.. its legal to hunt with in even the crazy restrictive states like Indiana where 300 BLK and x39 are not allowed.. etc... Its about the perfect 0-150 yard hog caliber IMO.. 20 rounds against a sounder raiding your feeder at 2AM is a pretty impressive thing to behold..

For defense/offense against 2 legged critters however.. I'll still take the 556 every day..

 

[CJW]

Finding a quality AK always seemed complicated. I went with the poor man's AK, the SKS.

 

[Bert the Turtle]

AK’s are ergonomically friendly rifles for us left-handers.

They are damn common, definitely on the list of guns to have a working familiarity with if you want to be generally competent with most rifles.

I find them fun to shoot, if rather rough-and-ready.

As far as practical value, I suppose you’d need to define your use and see how it fits. Only word of advice I would offer is a person on his own or even in a small group is operating under different circumstances than an army or even a squad. The perfect choice for the Soviet army or Delta Force may have nothing to do with what you need.