Advice on self defense weapon

[Hogpatrol]

Probably good for a barrister to chime in but has anyone considered the legal ramifications if their home firearm left unattended or not in a safe, is stolen and then used in a crime, maybe a death?
Another subject is civil liability. In stand your ground states, do the laws say you're off the hook legally and also not liable for a death? These are issues that one needs to think about before arming for self defense. In case anyone hasn't noticed, law enforcement in the performance of their duties, have killed people and then the employing municipalities have been successfully sued for the death.

 

[Corey0372]

Probably good for a barrister to chime in but has anyone considered the legal ramifications if their home firearm left unattended or not in a safe, is stolen and then used in a crime, maybe a death?
Another subject is civil liability. In stand your ground states, do the laws say you're off the hook legally and also not liable for a death? These are issues that one needs to think about before arming for self defense. In case anyone hasn't noticed, law enforcement in the performance of their duties, have killed people and then the employing municipalities have been successfully sued for the death.

Exactly why it's always a good idea to take a CCW class from an organization with a good reputation where you live. Regardless of if you plan on carrying, you'll still receive a lot of pertinent information for your state/city/county whatever the case is.

 

[375Fox]

Pepper spray. You kill someone, you better have some sort of insurance to cover your ass. Remember, you are innocent until you run out of money.

I don’t disagree with your thought process, but have you ever known anyone that sprayed pepper spray inside their home? I would think it would have a significant impact on the person who sprayed it as well inside a confined space like a hallway. Would be a major issue if there are more than 1 intruder especially if they had a firearm.

 

[Ed Lally]

Know your states laws on the matter. Some states have "Stand Your Ground" laws. Some have "Castle Doctrine" laws. Some have both or neither. Some state laws allow you to protect person but not property. Some have hybrid laws like NY where you have an obligation to retreat before applying deadly force. Thus is not legal advice but an admonition to do your own research. Then choose the least violent available course of action to the immediate situation to protect yourself and those you love. Knowledge is power and acting with the proper knowledge will save your ass and your assets after the shit has hit the fan.

 

[Dwight Beagle]

I’ve been reading threads for years on what is the best self defense firearm. I’ve never seen an argument definitively proving what is best between handgun, shotgun or AR.

So I have a handgun and shotgun next to the bed and a loaded AR in my safe.

I have a thing for Colt snubbies but for me I’ll take a full size or compact semi. As such a CZ 75 SP-01 Tactical is in my nightstand. I would never rack the slide on a pump as a warning. In my mind it would make it easier for a bad guy to locate me and shoot. I also don’t believe it imperative to use a pump if a shotgun is your HD weapon. I have a semi-auto shotgun that is used for HD because I’m horrible about short shucking pumps.

If using a handgun I don’t believe it matters one whit whether the gun is striker or hammer fired.

 

[Dwight Beagle]

The "relatively well trained and of the right mindset" is what is probably lacking in such an inquiry, hence my suggestion on pepper spray. Kind of like someone asked what is a nice starter car for their young son and people are coming out of the woodwork suggesting a widow-maker Jeep with the doors stripped or a 5.0 Mustang or something.

There are a littany of sources available on the internet, articles like the following from Scientific American are a good overview; but yes, statistically you're more likely to injure yourself or a family member than you are to use a firearm in defensive gun use.


Honestly I'd rather not get into it, as I think this is entirely an inappropriate venue for it (and it really has no place on a hunting forum, and should get slotted to the 'Off Topic' space), and I normally wouldn't even engage but the responses suggesting "having 30 to 60 rounds on the weapon" for a guy asking an entry level question on a brand new account is a little much taking it in. Call me absurd all you like, but I'm not American, and espousing that a guy needs more than the standard US infantryman's WWII load (which I think was a bandolier of six of the eight round enbloc clips) as a baseline for home defense seems bizarre on the face of it from an outsider's perspective.

Similar to the trend of city dwellers who are obsessed with "predator defence" when they might spend an hour or two a year in light bush (whilst literal millions camp and hike without any such nonsense), I suppose I might be a little old fashioned or out of touch with the recent trend that everyone has to play some version of SEAL Team Six Halloween while living their quiet, benign family life. See also: Plate carriers at the range, coyote and arid brown painted everything despite being a thousand miles from the nearest arid desert, and all manner of flashlights and gadgets bolted on to a firearm or AR clone.

To each their own, I guess. But colour me thoroughly bewildered by it all.
Lots of good advice about taking a training course, familiarization, and practicing in there; I will say.

Many studies such as the one in Scientific American have proven to be seriously flawed and subjective. Quoting that article speaks volumes about you and your beliefs, beliefs which are probably opposite of the beliefs shared by the vast majority of members of this website.

 

[1dirthawker]

well,

if it is just a sit by the bed gun, i would consider a 9mm glock or the springfield XDM, put night sights on it (can aim better at night an surprisingly handy to locate the gun in the dark) even a laser on it.

if you are going to carry, everyday, i really like my sig 365 9mm, small, double stack,with a laser on it. it is my "no excuse" (NO EXCUSE TO LEAVE IT AT HOME) carry gun. I also have a 9mm springfield hellcat with a small red dot sight on it. i find the sig easier to acquire the sights in a hurry, but that is likely just a training issue.

9mm guns carry more ammo in the same sized gun an provide an equal ability for a one shot stop on a bad guy. +- 1%

 

[Deleted member 53080]

I don’t disagree with your thought process, but have you ever known anyone that sprayed pepper spray inside their home? I would think it would have a significant impact on the person who sprayed it as well inside a confined space like a hallway. Would be a major issue if there are more than 1 intruder especially if they had a firearm.

That would be a great concern to me as well.

Pepper spray scenario: It’s late. Wife is home alone. She hears a noise and investigates. She sees one bad guy either already in the home or in the act of breaking in. For whatever reason she remains in the house (maybe she’s on the second floor) and runs to get her pepper spray. She encounters the bad guy (through her efforts or his). She sprays. Bad guy #1 is incapacitated but she is as well or maybe she’s out of spray and believethe threat is neutralized. Bad guy #2 makes an appearance. Possible outcomes grow increasingly grim.

Firearm scenario: Exactly the same but your wife grabs her firearm (take your pick). Contact is made. She fires, aiming for center mass, and either kills bad guy #1 or puts him out of commission for good. Bad guy #2 hears shot, fears for his life and flees. The day is saved.

Obviously a situation like that can go a thousand different ways but at the end of the day a dead person can’t cause further harm and one who is severely wounded is far less likely to.

 

[Nyati]

My answer to the OP´s question is that any gun will do for home defense, but it will be worthless unless he gains the necessary proficiency with it.

 

[shark_za]

The slide isn’t different? On a beretta or sig 226 the slides are different, I believe to accommodate the larger case head.
BTW I had both 40 and 9mm slides and barrels for my beretta 92/96. It was too confusing to keep the right ammo and mags you needed. Just pick one caliber and go with it.

The factory 9mm barrel and slide "hole" is smaller than the .40 one. So you cannot put a factory 9mm barrel into a 40 slide. It will wiggle around in the slide at the front.
Custom 40 to 9mm conversion barrels are more "bull barrel" and fit into the 40 slide "hole" with the right tolerances.
The 9mm conversions seem to work ok with the 40 ejector. If not replacing with the 9mm ejector is about 1 minutes job with a punch tool.

We don't get this luxury in South Africa, I carry a Glock 27 or 23 for self protection but would suggest a 9mm Glock 19 or 17 as a very capable pistol with which to learn on.
The simplicity of the design and the service life and reliability of the components means it will last you a long long time with minimal maintenance.
Get good training and shoot shoot shoot.
Practice doesn't make perfect, but prefect practice makes perfect.

 

[YancyW]

Probably good for a barrister to chime in but has anyone considered the legal ramifications if their home firearm left unattended or not in a safe, is stolen and then used in a crime, maybe a death?
Another subject is civil liability. In stand your ground states, do the laws say you're off the hook legally and also not liable for a death? These are issues that one needs to think about before arming for self defense. In case anyone hasn't noticed, law enforcement in the performance of their duties, have killed people and then the employing municipalities have been successfully sued for the death.

Clearly varies by justification, but by concept, stand your ground is pretty similar where adopted. Most of the states where adopted also include civil protections from wrongful death claims, but there are exceptions.

Understanding the applicable standards for self-defense and other related statutes is extremely important, I would never let that cause me to be unarmed in my home.

 

[Sid Post]

Hello all,
I’m looking to buy a gun for the house for self defense reasons. I don’t need anything fancy. Just something reliable, easy to use, and preferably economical (although that is not a deciding factor). Any suggestions? Also, any suggestions for Secure storage which can be accessed quickly in case that time comes?

Before we get off into the deep end of the pool, this member appears to be in Southern California with very limited firearms experience. An uncle's trophies apparently brought him here.

That being said, I would recommend a local shooting club, not a gun shop, to find a firearm that fits you and your lifestyle. What is 'right' for me likely isn't for you.

Use what you are familiar with. A 470NE double rifle may be massive overkill and a danger to your neighbors but, if that's the reason you're around to make a court date, most of us could and would deal with that. That being said, a 9.3x74R double or a 12 Gauge might be better choices!

 

[Hogpatrol]

With regard to blasting someone in self defense, may be to one's advantage to read this book.

Amazon.com

 

[USMA84DAB]

Gentlemen -

Not trying to be jerk, but I think most need to mentally go here in order to prepare.

Great book for a decade ago. There is no guarantee of rule of law now in the former United States. Kenosha Kid. McCloskeys. You will not be tried fairly.

After the upcoming coronation of the sniffer crime syndicate head, there will likely be false flags that kick off "mostly peaceful" protests. When blantifa is lighting molotovs at the curb of your home, none of the "normal" rule of law considerations matter a damned bit. Ask the people in Minneapolis, Seattle, Portland, Kenosha.

Just awakening people need to decide quickly where their line in the sand lies and get ready to fight like the Tasmanian Devil when it is crossed.

IF you survive, then you can be assured you will be crucified for having the temerity to defend yourself.

Fight one battle at a time.

Just my $.02 worth. YMMV.

May God forgive and restore the Constitutional Republic.

 

[Sid Post]

Trying not to get on a political soapbox but, after "freedom looters and rioters" being rewarded by politicians for looting to feed themselves and getting reparations before burning the store, I'm not holding my breath for people like Maxine Waters and her ilk sending the 'freedom rioters' to my house to burn it to the ground and hang me from the nearest tree after beating me to death with a flag pole or an ANTIFA\BLM brick because my skin is the wrong color.

After all, we all know it was "white supremacists" that were the ones in the 'PEACEFUL BLM looting and rioting fests' that caused all the problems with blinding police and burning business to the ground.

[/rant off][/sarcasm]

 

[Chad '06]

Oh boy, this is fairly deep question with a lot to consider. Of course, know the laws in your area and know specifically what the law allows. Learn what to say and more importantly what not to say should the unfortunate day arise when that firearm is needed. Warning shots in any jurisdiction are essentially an admission that lethal force was used unjustly. Also, no law allows anyone to shoot with the intention of killing. Saying you shot to kill is essentially admitting to murder. The law allows use of lethal force to stop the threat. Death just happens to be a side effect. "I was in fear for my life and I shot until he stopped." Now, as for the actual firearms.

Handguns- They are very convenient and truthfully, that is the extent of their positive attributes. I second those who recommend a full size. As for which one, I highly recommend finding a range with rental guns and actually trying a few out. Don't get hung up on caliber. Handguns are not rifles and do not have the stopping power of rifles. They spoke holes and inflict pain. From 9mm on up, your ability to put shots on target quickly and accurately is what will matter. I definitely agree with those recommending a full size. That said, my first line of defense is a Sig P365 because that is my carry gun. If I have clothes on, it is on me. I don't have have to go to another room or open a safe. I simply I have to draw it from it's holster.

Shotguns- Shotguns are outstanding fight stoppers. Of that, there is no debate. There are, imo, 3 downsides. First and foremost is you must have time to go and retrieve them from whatever room they are in and however they are stored. Also, magazine capacity is limited should you find yourself facing multiple threats. Lastly, a load of buckshot is a lot of projectiles to account for should they over penetrate or miss the target.

Rifles- Imo, this is the best choice assuming you have time to get to it. Contrary to what many unfamiliar with ballistics will say, it is, depending of course on ammo selection, the lowest risk of over penetration or stray rounds. It is much easier to get hits with and is a far superior fight stoppers to a handgun. An AR15 with a motion activated red dot, a weapon mounted light, and a 30 round magazine full of 5.56 is wonderfully easy to use, highly effective, and between red dot and light, you can very quickly and accurately IDENTIFY your target and then get on target regardless of lighting conditions. I cannot stress enough the importance of having a light to identify your target as an actual threat and not a kid or one of their stupid friends sneaking in or a drunk brother in law, friend or neighbor.

The pistol is always at hand but if I have a few seconds to get to it, I am grabbing a rifle.

 

[Pondoro]

Though tempted to suggest a .357mag revolver I would suggest a Webley revolver in .455..

You have all the stopping power you need (265 grain lead..) and some hearing left if fired indoors..

A carry gun is a different matter, I would choose a Glock 17...draw it and shoot, no safety to fumble..

 

[Whacker]

@Ridgewalker had a very good suggestion in my opinion...a good dog will do wonders. I’m gonna throw another suggestion I haven’t seen yet...learn how to defend yourself without a gun as well. It is great to have your home defense plan lined out...but what happens if your gun is in your bedroom and your perpetrator has you in the front yard. Good hand to hand combat skills will go a long way in defense situations and could save you the hassle of the legal aftermath after shooting someone. Personally I train in Muay Thai, Brazilian Jiu Jitsu, Kickboxing, Boxing, and MMA just for these instances...not to mention the great cardio boost you will have over the bad guys which will also be needed if you have to face multiple bad guys...now all that being said they have to get past my German Shepherd first in which case they will need to already be shooting upon entry cause he don’t like the bad guys either. As far as the question about what type of firearm for protection...only you know your current situations therefore only you will be able to make those decisions. In my situation, other bedrooms in my house are in a location where any shots toward an intruder will be away from them and I have no immediate neighbors being on a farm so over penetration is a non issue for me, you have to decide that for you. I also have animals to protect from predators so a couple guns in my safe stay loaded as well as two next to my bed. I keep an AR-12 with 00 Buck next to the bed in case of intruders in the middle of the night...or in the case of coyotes or whatever else in the chickens houses...second one by the bed is a bolt action .22 magnum also for predators if they’re close to my animals or out of range of the shotgun...I can reach the coyotes at 200 yds with it if the wind isn’t heavy. Now that both these stay loaded for the instance I may need them quickly I also employ biometric fingerprint trigger locks for safety. Besides the two of these I also carry either a Glock 30 or a Kimber Aegis Ultra in 45acp which I have one or the other at all times. Whatever you decide you will have to make that decision based on where you live(long straight hallways, tight corners, etc.), factors you may have to consider(over penetration, others in home, etc.), and your comfort level with your protection. Whatever you choose learn it, use it regularly, and train train train.

 

[Ridgewalker]

Whatever you choose learn it, use it regularly, and train train train.

+1