A very naive question about Winchester Model 70 Safari Express .375 H&H

[Certus]

How does trajectory and recoil compare for a 375 H&H vs .416 Rem?

 

[PHOENIX PHIL]

How does trajectory and recoil compare for a 375 H&H vs .416 Rem?

The .416Rem will not be quite as flat just looking at velocities. But not enough to make a difference at reasonable ranges.

 

[Bullthrower338]

I would have to say that the 375 is like a grilled cheese sandwich and the 416 is like that sandwich with tomato soup on the side. A guy cant bitch about either of them but you get a little more on your plate with the 416

 

[Von S.]

Tomato soup.....now that's not only true, but a chuckle as well. Please tell me you put milk in it.

Anyway, I absolutely admired the 375 H&H as one of the finest rounds in the world to take down large non- lethal game with the right 270 gr spbt it will hit and kill very large animals like an eland at distances that very few have ever practiced at. But for animals like cape, elephants and rhino I, like many, find it wanting in jthat department. Cats? Sure! Shoot that pussy cat and hit him right and he won't get up. And one of the best rifles in the world to stuff those bullets in is the Winchester Mod 70.

 

[matt85]

I want a .458 win mag, and if I get one, for me, it has to be a Winchester model 70. I like the cartridge and maker names to match

As for affording either an expensive rifle OR going on a hunt.. well, would you rather an object or memories?

shoot one before you buy one!

i shoot big bore guns as a hobby and am no stranger to recoil but i found the 458 WM version of the M70 to be unpleasant. i imagine with some weight added to the proper locations on the stock it would probably be fine. but i consider the CZ 550 in 458 Lott to be much more comfortable to shoot then the M70 with the less powerful 458 WM.

How does trajectory and recoil compare for a 375 H&H vs .416 Rem?

using the load i recommend in an above post you will find the 416 RM is usable out to around 200 yards. however the 375 H&H will be more suitable for shots over 150 yards. if you plan to shoot at greater ranges on a regular basis with the rifle then the 375 H&H is a better choice.

-matt

 

[Certus]

shoot one before you buy one!

i shoot big bore guns as a hobby and am no stranger to recoil but i found the 458 WM version of the M70 to be unpleasant. i imagine with some weight added to the proper locations on the stock it would probably be fine. but i consider the CZ 550 in 458 Lott to be much more comfortable to shoot then the M70 with the less powerful 458 win

Heya Matt,

Had a Zastava in .458 win. Loved that gun. Bought a 450 nitro that weighs 8lb. Love it. I can only imagine a m70 will be similar or better.

I’d rather a 458 win over a Lott. But that’s just me

Sorry for the derail everyone!

 

[WAB]

I actually bought the M70 in 458 WM and had it reamed out to a Lott. I had the bbl cut down to 22”, NECG banded front and island express sights installed. I do not find it unpleasant to shoot but I did have a mercury recoil reducer installed in the stock. I don’t know how much difference it made to the recoil but the balance is perfect now.

 

[Newboomer]

Guys, thank you so much. Another guy snapped it up while I was on the road negotiating a trade for a 7x57. But, I will be ready for the next one. The truth is that it was a good deal, but I really need the same gun in .416. I am sure that the same comments apply.

Thanks,

Jeff

If it's a model 70 you can't go wrong. I have 2 and use them exclusively.

 

[Newboomer]

shoot one before you buy one!

i shoot big bore guns as a hobby and am no stranger to recoil but i found the 458 WM version of the M70 to be unpleasant. i imagine with some weight added to the proper locations on the stock it would probably be fine. but i consider the CZ 550 in 458 Lott to be much more comfortable to shoot then the M70 with the less powerful 458 WM.



using the load i recommend in an above post you will find the 416 RM is usable out to around 200 yards. however the 375 H&H will be more suitable for shots over 150 yards. if you plan to shoot at greater ranges on a regular basis with the rifle then the 375 H&H is a better choice.

-matt

I've used my 375HH out to 350 yards with a 200 yard zero very effectively with Barnes TSX 235 gr.

 

[Rick Cox]

If you are curious about tragectories check out this site. Choose your cartridge and bullet, opt to compare two cartridges and Viola! Two charts, two graphs.
http://gundata.org/ballistic-calculator/
Also you can change zero, wind etc.

 

[sierraone]

turn out the screw on the trigger to lighten the pull weight to a out 3 pounds, mount a good scope and shoot it as much as you can.

That is exactly correct! I do not own and have never owned a bad M70! The .458 Win mag I owned was far to light for such a caliber for me, but the rifle performed as well as any of the others I have owned! As someone above said....buy it and go hunting!

 

[Bas]

This is a bit off topic, but consider putting paste wax on all surfaces (excluding internal trigger parts and bore) with fingers and q tips after removing all hardware from the stock. Allow it to dry and lightly buff the wax. For a low glare finish don't buff. This should help protect from rust and not accumulate dirt as over -oiling might. Also helps shed water. Good luck on your purchase and hunt.

 

[ve7poi]

Buy it and shoot it lots before going from all positions go hunting and have fun

 

[flat8]

I've used my 375HH out to 350 yards with a 200 yard zero very effectively with Barnes TSX 235 gr.

What’s your drop at 300 with that load?

 

[Deleted member 43267]

Many thanks to all of you who responded with thoughtful comments. A few days ago I found one at a local gunshop that was priced to reflect the fact that there is almost no market for this caliber in the midwest. It was so pristine that I actually had to verify that it was a used gun. It probably has a round count less than 20 because it was owned by a collector who sold some of his production guns for a rare model. FN South Carolina gun, nice wood, barrel band, Pachmayr deceleration pad, and even Talley bases. It fit me better than any rifle I have ever handled. I snapped it up with confidence based on your thoughtful and positive reviews. The shop guy is a builder, and gave me some ideas for enhancements such as pillar bedding and an aftermarket trigger, but agreed that it was ready to hunt as is. I won't be taking it to Africa for a year or two, but that gives me time to work up loads and practice. The money I saved can go into that part, and a fine scope with detachable mounts.

Thanks,

Jeff

 

[PHOENIX PHIL]

Many thanks to all of you who responded with thoughtful comments. A few days ago I found one at a local gunshop that was priced to reflect the fact that there is almost no market for this caliber in the midwest. It was so pristine that I actually had to verify that it was a used gun. It probably has a round count less than 20 because it was owned by a collector who sold some of his production guns for a rare model. FN South Carolina gun, nice wood, barrel band, Pachmayr deceleration pad, and even Talley bases. It fit me better than any rifle I have ever handled. I snapped it up with confidence based on your thoughtful and positive reviews. The shop guy is a builder, and gave me some ideas for enhancements such as pillar bedding and an aftermarket trigger, but agreed that it was ready to hunt as is. I won't be taking it to Africa for a year or two, but that gives me time to work up loads and practice. The money I saved can go into that part, and a fine scope with detachable mounts.

Thanks,

Jeff

Congratulations! I've found IMR4350 to work well with 300gr bullets. And I have a H4895 load for 250gr bullets. Hopefully that'll give you a good starting point for load development.

 

[colorado]

Congrats on your new rifle!

 

[Hillbilly Marine]

Congratulations! You can't go wrong buying a M70. I've had a couple over the years, a pre64 30-06 and one made in 85/86 timeframe in 25-06. Both went to finance an new Styer AUG, an AK, and two SKSs. Never had any problems with either one and both worked like silk. Those rifles disappearences both are listed under "Stupid things morons do that get figured out later in life".

 

[sestoppelman]

Look forward to a range report!

 

[TOBY458]

I'm with Matt on this one. In the Winchester SE 375, the weight is definitely up there. I have the 416 RM and it's even a little bit heavy for my tastes. I took mine on a Buffalo hunt last year, and it did just fine. Also, it's one of the most accurate rifles I own. And that's including my small bore rifles. If it were me, I'd go with the 416 in the Winchester and find a lighter weight rifle in 375. I've always said that if Winchester ever comes out with a "guide gun" type of rifle in 375, meaning short light and stainless, they would fly off the shelf.