A question of interpretation

[stug]

Most non-hunters I talk to ask me if I "caught" anything. I can't remember any asking if I had killed anything.

 

[JGRaider]

I have the utmost respect for the game when I go hunting, but I have every intention of killing something and do not apologize for it. Just the way it is. I can honestly say, I'm stunned we're even having this conversation on a hunting forum. Seems like a conversation that belongs in the women's bridge club.

 

[Velo Dog]

Fellow Hunters, Shade Tree Adventurers, Lady's Men and Gun Slingers,

Regarding our choice of words in public:

I was a cop for about 28 years - 8 in California and 20 in Alaska, including 5 years in SWAT.
Most but not all of my friends are retired cops, several are also ex-military, including one Marine Sniper who is well decorated for his late 1960's accomplishments in South/East Asia, and another one in particular was a successful (made money and lived to spend it) mercenary in the Philippines, Haiti, Afghanistan and I forgot where else, for the better part of 20 years (now he works Oil Field Security).

Furthermore, my basement is converted into a full-on but private pub, known to my friends and relatives as "The Safari Bar".
Down in this "man cave" bar of mine, unrestrained disrespect toward the always hypocritical worshipers of mother earth, child molesters, wife beaters, drive-by shooters, politicians and poachers, is strongly encouraged.
Swearing and hard language is also encouraged, including the word "kill" (not always confined to 4 legged animals either).
During typical "Safari Bar" gatherings, the "F-word" is not only encouraged, it is actually required to clarify otherwise foggy parts of any story being told.

Mere possession of a wine cooler or drink containing Captain Morgan's (too sweet to be worthy of the title "rum") are grounds for expulsion from the bar.
Beer of any sort is acceptable however, IPA's, Stouts and Porters are preferred by most of the grumpy old men I associate with.
Often we drink various whiskeys or Kirk & Sweeny rum, etc - generally all are taken straight or "neat", no mixers except some prefer their whiskey over ice, or with a wee drop of water - these are within "the code".
Gin however is generally consumed mixed with dry vermouth and an olive in a martini or in the classic Gin & Tonic with a slice or two of lime, also soundly within "the code".

HOWEVER, despite the company I keep (including Matt85 and AkMike lately), when outside the confines of my basement and/or when relating my hunting and fishing stories to people who I do not know well or people that I do know well enough to believe they could be offended by hard language, I try to keep my language relatively tame.
It is a "Public Relations" issue that is important to me personally.

This in no way means that I would ever apologize for being a hunter/fisher, I will never do that.
When anyone complains to me about hunting I always reply with "what, are you a vegan or some such as that?"
I also quickly hit them with "hunting is a major corner stone of my religion and I am very offended that anyone in The USA would dare to deny my Constitutional Right to practice my religion".
Another favorite of mine: "Is fishing acceptable to you, because it is the same thing - especially from the fish's point of view".

IMO, we can firmly stand our ground in the face of all these fanatic nuts and spoiled rich brats but, we also need to avoid sounding like drunken sailors when stating our position on hunting, for PR sake.

Speaking of drunken sailors, all this typing has made me thirsty - so cheers,
Velo Dog.

 

[JGRaider]

That's a nice piece Velo. I enjoyed that as if I were there, pounding some brews in your basement. Equating the "Fword" with the word "killing" is a little bit of a stretch though don't you think, especially as it pertains to hunting?

 

[Velo Dog]

That's a nice piece Velo. I enjoyed that as if I were there, pounding some brews in your basement. Equating the "Fword" with the word "killing" is a little bit of a stretch though don't you think, especially as it pertains to hunting?

Hi JGRaider,

The F-word is "swearing" and the word kill is hard language, IMO so, I did not exactly imply the two are on the same level of offensiveness, in regards to speaking with certain people (typically the general public - and therefore the term: "Public Relations").

No I don't think for a moment that you missed my point of: "Pretty much any words are acceptable, strictly among certain types of friends but, prudent folks clean up their language in public".

And amigo, you will always be welcome here in the event you ever find yourself in Anchorage with a couple hours to "kill" - LOL.

Kind regards,
Velo Dog.

 

[BRICKBURN]

.........
And amigo, you will always be welcome here in the event you ever find yourself in Anchorage with a couple hours to "kill" - LOL.
.......

 

[siml]

Kill, hunt, shoot doesn't bother me one bit. But have to agree with earlier post, harvest, that just sounds corny, no pun intended.

 

[bluey]

ha ha ha , you can crack me up most of the time ,velo..........

gday simon ,
kill or harvest , depends where I am , and whom I talk about the stalk , to .....

JGR , I will never appolagise for my hunting or fishing either ,mate .
but PR decorum ,dictates , conservativeness will get a better response .......a better response will always help ,make friends of those who aren't always friendly....
or as my pop used to say ; you will always catch more flys with honey than vinegar........

 

[JustinC]

I have the utmost respect for the game when I go hunting, but I have every intention of killing something and do not apologize for it. Just the way it is. I can honestly say, I'm stunned we're even having this conversation on a hunting forum. Seems like a conversation that belongs in the women's bridge club.

As an open forum about HUNTING and not woman's bridge, is this not the exact type of conversation we should try to have among hunters in order to (try to) change the way hunting is perceived? Statements like " lets go kill something" etc etc is not helping our cause - IMO.

But each to their own (maybe that's the problem)

 

[Mr. 16 gauge]

I can't remember who said it (I think it was Aldo Leopold), and I am paraphrasing here, but I remember a statement: "We kill to say we have hunted; we don't hunt to say we killed". To me, those words speak volumes......yet it's difficult for the nonhunting public to understand, and I think that part of the problem is that everything that they have ever "seen" on TV, videos, etc. shows a "successful" conclusion to a hunt. When was the last time you ever saw a hunting show where the end result was the animal getting the upper hand? That doesn't sell video tapes or make $$$$.
I have no problem with the word "kill".......it's what we do, to say we have "hunted". To say "lets go kill something" implies (to some) that it doesn't really matter what is killed, as long as it is some living target. Quite possibly the method used to kill something might come into question as well (shooting it, hitting it with a vehicle, blinding it with lights at night, etc.). I think that the problem isn't so much with the word "kill", as whatever else is added in the sentence.
Semantics? Maybe................it's just MHO.

 

[siml]

Justin, I will agree with you, lets go hunt something does sound better, but in the end we do kill.

 

[JustinC]

I can't remember who said it (I think it was Aldo Leopold), and I am paraphrasing here, but I remember a statement: "We kill to say we have hunted; we don't hunt to say we killed". To me, those words speak volumes......yet it's difficult for the nonhunting public to understand, and I think that part of the problem is that everything that they have ever "seen" on TV, videos, etc. shows a "successful" conclusion to a hunt. When was the last time you ever saw a hunting show where the end result was the animal getting the upper hand? That doesn't sell video tapes or make $$$$.
I have no problem with the word "kill".......it's what we do, to say we have "hunted". To say "lets go kill something" implies (to some) that it doesn't really matter what is killed, as long as it is some living target. Quite possibly the method used to kill something might come into question as well (shooting it, hitting it with a vehicle, blinding it with lights at night, etc.). I think that the problem isn't so much with the word "kill", as whatever else is added in the sentence.
Semantics? Maybe................it's just MHO.

Thank you, that's what I'm trying to get at....

Its not the word in use (even though it might have come across that way) but the context in which it is used. And as I mentioned previously, the end result is a kill but we shouldn't be considered as "Killers".

 

[Nyati]

I can't remember who said it (I think it was Aldo Leopold), and I am paraphrasing here, but I remember a statement: "We kill to say we have hunted; we don't hunt to say we killed". To me, those words speak volumes......yet it's difficult for the nonhunting public to understand, and I think that part of the problem is that everything that they have ever "seen" on TV, videos, etc. shows a "successful" conclusion to a hunt. When was the last time you ever saw a hunting show where the end result was the animal getting the upper hand? That doesn't sell video tapes or make $$$$.
I have no problem with the word "kill".......it's what we do, to say we have "hunted". To say "lets go kill something" implies (to some) that it doesn't really matter what is killed, as long as it is some living target. Quite possibly the method used to kill something might come into question as well (shooting it, hitting it with a vehicle, blinding it with lights at night, etc.). I think that the problem isn't so much with the word "kill", as whatever else is added in the sentence.
Semantics? Maybe................it's just MHO.

Jose Ortega y Gasset, a spanish philosopher said " You don´t hunt in order to kill, you kill because you have hunted". He wrote a whole book about the ethics of hunting.

And I agree with your post.

 

[UKHunter]

I agree with a lot of what has been said and believe we should try and present and represent our sport in the highest esteem. Killing features in the pursuit of game, however it is not the main feature and should not dictate how we talk and represent the pursuit of our quarry.

Many hunters complain with which the manor our sport is viewed but tend to then do nothing to help try and educate non-hunters. By using terms such as 'Lets go kill something' we hardly promote what we do in a positive light. It is apart of the process and not something we should hide from, however, there are far more important aspects to it. If people would put just a little bit of fore-thought before we speak and act it will go a long way to promote our sport.

What I find far more irritating is the type of people who once they have shot their quarry feel the need to start yelling and chest beating. I've never understood why there is a need for this? In my experience they also tend to be the type of person who hunts for all the wrong reasons and doesn't promote our sport or belong in it in my opinion.

 

[JGRaider]

What I find far more irritating is the type of people who once they have shot their quarry feel the need to start yelling and chest beating. I've never understood why there is a need for this? In my experience they also tend to be the type of person who hunts for all the wrong reasons and doesn't promote our sport or belong in it in my opinion.

Well said sir, and I couldn't agree more. Maybe if the lingo is "Let's go try and kill something", it would appease more people? Sorry to be so blunt, and I do not go out of my way to piss people off, but I could give a ratsasss what the liberal retard, tree hugging, PETA crowd thinks of me.

 

[UKHunter]

Well said sir, and I couldn't agree more. Maybe if the lingo is "Let's go try and kill something", it would appease more people? Sorry to be so blunt, and I do not go out of my way to piss people off, but I could give a ratsasss what the liberal retard, tree hugging, PETA crowd thinks of me.

A better way of phrasing it but personally I don't believe the word 'kill' is necessary. The phrases used depend upon the company to some extent but generally I refer to; 'Lets go see what we can find'.

You might not care about the 'tree-huggers', etc but there is a large segment of the population which is not dead set against hunting. We can educate this segment through how we present and represent our sport, which will only benefit our community. We may not believe our actions and words are wrong (for want of a better word) but if we only refer to hunting as or about killing then that is how everyone else is going to view it. We need to help ourselves not make life more difficult.

 

[LivingTheDream]

I have no problem with using the word kill. I think we just need to remember who we are talking to. But I have had opportunities to hunt crop damage and kill permits (literally its called a kill permit) for deer because I'm good a killing deer.

I hunt the suburbs alot due to deer damage, and talk with a ton of soccer moms. I dress nice on the initial meeting, cover my deer after the kill and don't leave a mess. But when a lady in Porsche pulls up and asks am I the deer killer, I don't hesitate to say yes. Her response was good kill them all.

My point is know your audience, understand the circumstances, but whether we like it or not we are killers and that isn't a bad thing.

 

[billc]

I don't think it matters how you say things. When people know you kill or have hunted something some like it others don't. We as hunters have failed to so why we must kill or hunt. We all tell each other but not enough time or money gets spent on teaching non hunters why hunting and killing is a good thing for animals over all. I am not a person that cares what must think but common sense should tell you we don't need to rub peoples face in the killing or hunting we do. I pick my words depending who is around on how I talk about hunting. I will talk about it around anyone but don't need to be rubbing peoples face in when I do.
Now if some anti decide to be stupid and talk shit will then the gloves come off and I don't care how I talk. Those people you will never change there minds but people on the fence should be handled differently if you want them to try and understand your side

 

[Saul]

George Carlin would have a field day with all of this euphemism talk. I don't think we need to be afraid of the words shot or killed, but we must be assiduous about when and how we use these words. I rarely say 'killed' but I do say 'shot' a lot, especially when talking with other hunters.

The problem comes when talking to anti-hunters. We cannot deny the fact that we are killing animals when hunting, but like others have pointed out, we have to explain the importance and joys of hunting. Everyone here is saying that the liberal yuppie tree-huggers are the problem, but I find that talking to them about the environmental benefits of conservation hunting and the health benefits of free-range, cruelty-free meat is a great way to win some support from them. Also, I find it very helpful to remind non-hunters that farmers also kill animals and usually do it in less humane ways than hunters, but no one protests farmers and their families online.

 

[Velo Dog]

Saul,

Excellent points (as usual).

Along that same line of reasoning - Anyone who is a strict vegan or vegetarian or whatever they like to call themselves is guilty of "animal genocide by proxy" when they buy vegetables, grains and fruits.

Because on vegetable, grain and fruit farms, nothing except those specific plants are allowed to live happily ever after.
All other living creatures, from insects to elephants are considered vermin to the farmer.

On a cattle/poultry, swine, sheep farm, virtually all animals raised there are sentenced to an early, (tender meat) death from the moment they are born.

In large areas where hunting is common, at least animals have some chance to die of old age, disease, drought/famine, parasites.

Predation (including by us humans) is always a possibility but not guaranteed, the prey species often get away (especially from me).

But don't try to confuse the Vegenazis with facts, they get pretty grumpy about facts.

Cheers,
Velo Dog.