A new break action single

[skydiver386]

Single shot options in the marketplace of notoriety in the past 20 years:

Thompson Contender break action single shot, mass marketed - Cancelled due to lack of demadn in 2000.

Dakota Model 10 falling block single shot - Dakota fell into bankruptcy 8 years ago because they couldn't make the math work in relation to demand at $6000 MSRP.

Ruger Number 1 falling block - Bill Ruger had control of his company and wanted a modern replica of the Gibbs Farquarson action. Bill lost money on every single one he made but he didn't care, it was his show and his company. The second he was no longer at the helm of the company, they discontinued the factory configurations. Over the subsequent years there have been Lipsey's exclusives for one distributor, purely meeting the niche demand at an MSRP of around $2500 or double what Bill Ruger was charging for them.

Luxus Arms Model 11 - Probably as close to your requirements of any semi-custom firearm that will ever be made. It was a break action, had bespoke options, a nice array of calibers, and stunning wood. They shuddered years ago because there wasn't enough demand for a break action at their $4000 pricepoint.

This thread has answered your question of why what you want doesn't exist. There isn't enough demand to keep the single shots that we deem "excellent for their purpose" going, much less to create a new offering for an unpleasant to shoot, overbuilt largebore alternative.

Don't hate me, hate the economics. I don't think your wish-list is going to get satisfied unless you get a custom gun built by a maker for over $15k just for your whims, but it will never enter broad production.

No hatred at all sir.

I completely understand that there would be slow, but steady demand for such a firearm, and I stated this in my original post.

The problem is that those familiar with European firearms immediately think "Kipplauf".

Those who grew up and started their hunting career in North America think "cheap single shot".

What I'm describing is neither. This is why it's so hard to get people to wrap their head around such a firearm. People assume their pre-conceived notions are what I'm describing.

I'm also fully and painfully aware of the past failures. I've actually owned 3 of the guns you listed, so I know why they failed. Please note that the idea of a break action single shot with fully interchangeable barrels is wildly popular IF properly executed. The T/C Encore and Contender pistol are proof that the concept is popular. The problem lies in the execution.

The Encore and Contender both started life as handguns, and their exposed hammers and uncomfortable stock design are why large calibers are not popular in these when configured as rifles. However they are so popular that several companies like EABCO, SSK, Bulberry, Match Grade Machine and others have based their entire business on manufacturing accessory barrels for these guns.

The TCR 83/87 was an entirely different firearm. THIS is somewhat the layout and concept I have in mind. I owned 3 of these at one time, and they are neither a lightweight Kipplauf, nor a monstrosity as some claim such a rifle must be.

The reason the TCR failed was NOT lack of demand for an interchangeable barrel firearm, as sales were brisk when the rifle was introduced. The execution of the TCR was the problem.

The TCR barrels that were initially advertised as being interchangeable were not, but instead had to be sent along with the frame back to the factory to be fitted. If another barrel was purchased at a later date, the frame along with the new barrel had to be sent to the factory yet again. Customers that were used to Thompson/Center firearms that sold interchangeable barrels in nearly every gun shop in North America in the 1970s and 1980s, were not willing to buy such a rifle. When this fact became widely known, sales fell off dramatically.

Of the three TCR reciever's and multiple barrels that I owned, none would lock up or fire. Once they were sent to the factory for fitting, they would not lock up or fire on the other 2 frames. What a mess. Demand was there, but quality control wasn't. A company that built it's entire name and reputation on interchangeable barrel firearms had a lemon on it's hands, and rapidly began to treat these guns as such.

Another issue with the TCR was the crossbolt safety with an additional button that had to be depressed before the crossbolt safety could be pushed. On the frames that I had none of the safeties could be depressed with less than 30 pounds of pressure as measured by a digital scale. Totally unworkable.

The basic design layout and interchangeable barrel concept are totally valid IMHO, but poorly executed by TC. You'll notice that the gun uses a monoblock construction similar to many doubles. The rifle was neither ugly, nor a monstrosity, but was fairly handsome to my eye. Remember, this same gun was available in calibers from .223, through 300 Win, and 12 gauge.

This is the full layout of the TCR rifle. Notice the drop at the comb and heel present in the factory stock. This along with a very thin wrist and poor trigger bow shape made them a poor choice in hard kicking calibers.

With several of the heavier barrels installed, these could weigh almost 9 pounds without optics. Hardly a Kipplauf, but entirely comfortable IF a proper stock design were installed.

IF and I repeat IF a company designed a rifle similar to this, with fully interchangeable barrels, it would sell. Will it outsell the Savage Axis at WalMart? No, but then again sales of double rifles are also slow in comparison.

 

[skydiver386]

You want to shoot a 460 Weatherby in a lightweight, kipplauf rifle?

I'm not even sure I'd want to see that...

Multiple times in this thread I have stated that I'm specifically NOT talking about a lightweight stalking rifle.

 

[rookhawk]

Multiple times in this thread I have stated that I'm specifically NOT talking about a lightweight stalking rifle.

Everyone understands you. We’re engineering what this looks like. You can’t have your cake and eat it too. It’s either a miserable, overbuilt beast, or it’s relatively light weight. To shoot the calibers you want, it would be a very heavy, crude, troublesome gun. If kept to kipplauf calibers, it’s been tried and failed many times.

Get a Parkwest model 10 traveler with two barrels, a small and medium bore. That’s the best option running, but will set you back $14k.

Respectfully, I’ve spent 30 years getting rid of my bad gun judgement of my 20s. I had Eabco contenders and encores. I think once you hold a sublime gun for its task, you no longer want compromise.

A break action do-all single shot is laden with compromises. Life’s too short to own ugly or heavy guns.

My perfect gun I’ve never owned, a Heym double in 470 with a set of 20 gauge barrels and a medium bore. (Never found the shotgun barrel model) A Dakota traveller 76 bolt gun in two barrels is pretty good too. A traveler 10 I’ve never owned, but a single caliber single shot model 10 is as good of a single shot as one can ever wish.

I’d convince you of the problems of your wish if you were in my workshop and I can show you how it would work and how much you’d hate it.

 

[AZDAVE]

As stated there we understand what you would like and are trying to help with setting the basis of the engineering and manufacturing specs that would be required to make your dream single shot a reality.

The tolerances have to be super tight to have the rifle accurate if you have ever smoke fit or watched someone fit a set of barrels for a custom single shot or double rifle along with shotgun barrels. You would see very quickly why manufacture require the action to come back and the subsequent barrels fitted to that specific frame. Even the H&R/NEF little us single shots required that you send the frame back for fitting. This is to ensure accuracy but also the legal folks for safety and customer support reasons.

What you want can be done but will only happen in a custom rifle route. There are a couple companies here in the US and I am sure in Germany and Austria that could build one for you. However that will come at a expense. My guess is that you are looking at 30-50K dollars or Euro's depending on which side of the pond it is built. But I also don't think you will find anyone willing to build a very high pressure round into a break open single or double for that matter. (IE 65K PSI on the weatherby)

So you are either looking at a custom or a less than elegant TC encore solution.

 

[Russ16]

I love this idea but I don’t think it is realistic. You even say that the market would be “slow but steady”. Slow and steady markets mean either low quality or expensive. And that’s separate of the engineering challenges. As many have said the frame for a .22 class cartridge will not handle larger and a that car tiger will be ungainly on a frame that will even handle something like a 35 Whelen much less magnum and large bore guns.

There is a much bigger market for multi barrel shotgun sets and even those are rare. A 28 gauge in the same frame that handles a twelve just doesn’t work in a game gun configuration. Yes competition guns do it but those a heavier guns meant for targets not carrying in the field.

I’m afraid you’re looking for something that isn’t realistic.

 

[Red Leg]

Everyone understands you. We’re engineering what this looks like. You can’t have your cake and eat it too. It’s either a miserable, overbuilt beast, or it’s relatively light weight. To shoot the calibers you want, it would be a very heavy, crude, troublesome gun. If kept to kipplauf calibers, it’s been tried and failed many times.

Get a Parkwest model 10 traveler with two barrels, a small and medium bore. That’s the best option running, but will set you back $14k.

Respectfully, I’ve spent 30 years getting rid of my bad gun judgement of my 20s. I had Eabco contenders and encores. I think once you hold a sublime gun for its task, you no longer want compromise.

A break action do-all single shot is laden with compromises. Life’s too short to own ugly or heavy guns.

My perfect gun I’ve never owned, a Heym double in 470 with a set of 20 gauge barrels and a medium bore. (Never found the shotgun barrel model) A Dakota traveller 76 bolt gun in two barrels is pretty good too. A traveler 10 I’ve never owned, but a single caliber single shot model 10 is as good of a single shot as one can ever wish.

I’d convince you of the problems of your wish if you were in my workshop and I can show you how it would work and how much you’d hate it.

Or simply get an R8

Perfect ergonomics and weight with each barrel set; the size of a klipplauf thanks to that brilliant trigger magazine design; no need to re-sight in the rifle with barrel changes; and it takes down into a perfect international travel packages. There are also those three extra rounds when the buffalo doesn't immediately agree to expire.

 

[VertigoBE]

To put a positive spin to the thread, if the goal is a semi bespoke single shot at a competitive price point, why not do something that has not been done mass market so far?

No (or only limited, according to cartridge groups) switch barrels, but a frame matched to caliber in the style of Ischler Stutzen’s for example. We have our falling blocks like the Ruger’s No ’s, we have the simple break actions Blaser K[emoji[emoji6][emoji6]][emoji6], Krieghoff Essencia, Merkel K, etc. This would be one with an elegant hammer on the side.

 

[rookhawk]

To put a positive spin to the thread, if the goal is a semi bespoke single shot at a competitive price point, why not do something that has not been done mass market so far?

No (or only limited, according to cartridge groups) switch barrels, but a frame matched to caliber in the style of Ischler Stutzen’s for example. We have our falling blocks like the Ruger’s No ’s, we have the simple break actions Blaser K[emoji[emoji6][emoji6]][emoji6], Krieghoff Essencia, Merkel K, etc. This would be one with an elegant hammer on the side.

Island hammerguns are not particularly in fashion at present so its a really small market for a stalking rifle or break action today.

For bespoke guns, its very hard to beat perfection. The collector community believes that the ultimate perfection was the Gibbs-Farquarson and perhaps the Westley Richards falling block. Those examples exist in excellent condition for $8000-$25000 which is less than new construction costs. About a decade ago there was a two barrel takedown WR that was stunning within those pricepoints, the large bore was a 425WR, I don't remember what the smallbore was but it was a good one.

We're competing against the costs to manufacture and also against the best alternative already present in the market. It's hard to spend gigantic money for a new one when the originals exist and aren't as expensive as making a custom today.

 

[Sarg]

Some nice Rifles made in Europe still, there are many .