A Case of Use Enough Gun?

[MS 9x56]

I don’t think anyone ever said that the 5.56 and 243 can’t kill deer. It is just that there are many better choices.

 

[Colt191145lover]

Greetings Colt191145lover,

I agree that the 5.56 - .223 Remington has taken countless deer in N. America.
And, with today’s extra tough bullets, the little cartridge more than likely is working better than ever.
That said, it remains my opinion that because there are so many appropriate cartridges available these days, there really is no reason to use varmint cartridges for hoofed game.

Again, I agree with you that, just like the little .243, also the 5.56 does work most of the time, provided like anything else, that the all-important vital hit is delivered and one’s bullet doesn’t come unraveled before piercing some vital organ or central nerve of the animal.
Earlier in this thread I described witnessing a literally brain shot wildebeest, that ran away, after being shot through the skull with a 50 grain .222 Remington bullet.
(Part of a culling effort, during drought).

Eventually we found it again and I finished it off with a 220 gr round nose soft through her shoulders (.30-06 Rifle).
I expect that a flat nosed revolver bullet striking the same spot would’ve been more effective.
Certainly an appropriate caliber rifle bullet striking the exact same spot would have instantly dropped that animal, in the first place.

Yours Truly is an above average rifle shot but occasionally, just like every hunter now and then does, I muff one.
This of course results in having to find and finish the wounded and suffering animal.
This is a major reason why I recommend cartridges with bullet weights capable of breaking bones of whatever species is being hunted.

I don’t begrudge you or any others for using too light of cartridges on hoofed critters.
It is your life and you should live it according to your own moral compass.
But my friendly suggestion remains, in all fairness to the animals, “Use enough gun”.

That’s it, old geezer rant over.

Kind Regards,
Velo Dog.

I get it and I like larger calibers most of the time . I also know that sometimes real odd things happen with bullets and the animal seems to have a vote in it as well. A relative of mine lost a black bear with a head shot from a 35 Whelen , lost the blood trail after looking for it for 3 days. Bullet failure or shooters fault, sometimes we never know .

 

[Colt191145lover]

I don’t think anyone ever said that the 5.56 and 243 can’t kill deer. It is just that there are many better choices.If we use 5.56 to

Not trying to stir the pot , as I dont think the 5.56 is the greatest or the end all be all for much of anything . But a serious question.

When we use 5.56 to hunt/ defend against some of the most dangerous creatures "human/bad guys" , we wouldn't we trust or use it on a deer?

 

[Ontario Hunter]

Not trying to stir the pot , as I dont think the 5.56 is the greatest or the end all be all for much of anything . But a serious question.

When we use 5.56 to hunt/ defend against some of the most dangerous creatures "human/bad guys" , we wouldn't we trust or use it on a deer?

That was a very poor choice to be using against people but, according to what I was told, 223 was chosen because of its usefulness wounding humans, not killing them. The thinking was that a wounded Vietcong tied up six more taking care of him. The fact that a wounded Vietcong can still kill a GI but a dead one can't didn't seem to factor in the decision. But our objective as hunters is different. It's not easy butchering a wounded deer. They generally don't put up with that. Anyway, there's a considerable difference between the size of the two critters. Not unusual to shoot mule deer that will dress out 175-200 lbs. Very rare to find a Vietnamese who weighs 120 lbs with his guts in him.

 

[chuckwellington]

Not trying to stir the pot , as I dont think the 5.56 is the greatest or the end all be all for much of anything . But a serious question.

When we use 5.56 to hunt/ defend against some of the most dangerous creatures "human/bad guys" , we wouldn't we trust or use it on a deer?

Following up on the above, the move to smaller caliber weapons in the military meant that troops could carry more ammo in higher capacity, lighter weapons. Fire superiority (putting a ton of stuff down range) is vital.

 

[Ontario Hunter]

Following up on the above, the move to smaller caliber weapons in the military meant that troops could carry more ammo in higher capacity, lighter weapons. Fire superiority (putting a ton of stuff down range) is vital.

Ah yes: spray and pray. There is a point of diminishing returns. Carrying much more ammo that is much less effective sorta balances out. It also teaches soldiers to waste their ammo. Spray and pray may be "vital" in some unique situations but I think putting a bullet that counts where it counts has proven over time (as in centuries of warfare) to be more effective. And we all must agree spray and pray is contrary to proper hunting ethics. Apples and oranges. Another reason why 223 has no business being shot at deer.

 

[Colt191145lover]

That was a very poor choice to be using against people but, according to what I was told, 223 was chosen because of its usefulness wounding humans, not killing them. The thinking was that a wounded Vietcong tied up six more taking care of him. The fact that a wounded Vietcong can still kill a GI but a dead one can't didn't seem to factor in the decision. But our objective as hunters is different. It's not easy butchering a wounded deer. They generally don't put up with that. Anyway, there's a considerable difference between the size of the two critters. Not unusual to shoot mule deer that will dress out 175-200 lbs. Very rare to find a Vietnamese who weighs 120 lbs with his guts in him.

Rumor mill has been going on since the M16 was adopted . Longest service rile of the US military , and when applied properly it has put a ton of bad guys in the ground so the argument is getting pretty old.

Modern rounds have helped a lot like the now legendary Mk262 , Mk318 even the M855A1 along with the current run of bonded rounds and Barnes bullets. Plenty of Lew Enforcement departments have OIS reports available to the public if anyone wants to dive into it that data.

Folks that can shoot dont seem to have a problem with it, in police work we would call that a clue...