A buffalo hunt with a 10mm

[CoElkHunter]

Dobb's was hunting in Zimbabwe when he shot the buffalo with the 10mm.

Here is a question and answer interview that he did on the hunt.

Razor Dobbs Kills Two Cape Buffalo with 10mm Auto Pistol - Interview | Razor Dobbs Alive Press & Articles

That’s right. Hunting and killing those two Cape buffalo with my 10mm are my two biggest feats. Not just huge for me but huge for the 10mm auto.

www.razordobbsalive.com

VERY interesting. It's amazing how the bullet at that velocity given the distance, was able to pass through the buffalo's shoulder and into the boiler room and end up near the off shoulder? I wouldn't have thought it possible from a 10mm.

 

[JimP]

VERY interesting. It's amazing how the bullet at that velocity given the distance, was able to pass through the buffalo's shoulder and into the boiler room and end up near the off shoulder? I wouldn't have thought it possible from a 10mm.

The big thing is bullet selection

 

[CoElkHunter]

The big thing is bullet selection

True, but I was also thinking of the remaining velocity from a 10mm at 35 yards?

 

[ChrisG]

VERY interesting. It's amazing how the bullet at that velocity given the distance, was able to pass through the buffalo's shoulder and into the boiler room and end up near the off shoulder? I wouldn't have thought it possible from a 10mm.

Well lets face it, a 9mm hardball round massively out penetrates a .308 150 grain soft point, but lets not put them in the same "effectiveness" category. People are impressed by penetration of these "puny" rounds, but a low velocity, small pistol round isn't pushing a lot out of its way as it goes through.

Correct me if I am wrong, but a solid from a .375 still causes a lot of cavitation as it passes though tissue and bone at 2x the speed of sound and damages tissues beyond the passage of the bullet. All that takes much more energy. All a 10mm has to do is punch a tiny hole through and it does that just fine. 700ft-lbs doesnt get burned up quick punching little holes even through bone. People are impressed when I show them that my 85 ft-lb .25 FX Impact will punch through 2 inches of wood at 75 yards. Same principle though. Not a surprise really that it made it through. Phil Schumaker had similar performance from a 3" 9mm shooting hard cast 147 grain bullets into a large brown bear that attacked some of his fly fishing clients. Killed the bear dead.
https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.wi...ls-charging-brown-bear-with-a-9mm-pistol/amp/

While it will penetrate, it would definitely not be my first choice. Better than a sharp stick and probably would be a pretty good "sleeping tent gun" in lion territory or if an animal was on top of you. (though personally I like my .45 super more than my previous 10mm). It works, yes. But a sharp stick does too. Its what you poke it through that counts. Just dont have bad poking aim or you could get people killed.

 

[Hunter4752001]

Put the data into a ballistic calculator. At that distance it would have only lost around 150 fps. The 3 keys to handgun hunting are: placement, bullet design and stalking in close (ie actually hunting).

A 10mm wouldn't be my first choice, but I won't join the antis lining up to criticize.

 

[CoElkHunter]

Well lets face it, a 9mm hardball round massively out penetrates a .308 150 grain soft point, but lets not put them in the same "effectiveness" category. People are impressed by penetration of these "puny" rounds, but a low velocity, small pistol round isn't pushing a lot out of its way as it goes through.

Correct me if I am wrong, but a solid from a .375 still causes a lot of cavitation as it passes though tissue and bone at 2x the speed of sound and damages tissues beyond the passage of the bullet. All that takes much more energy. All a 10mm has to do is punch a tiny hole through and it does that just fine. 700ft-lbs doesnt get burned up quick punching little holes even through bone. People are impressed when I show them that my 85 ft-lb .25 FX Impact will punch through 2 inches of wood at 75 yards. Same principle though. Not a surprise really that it made it through. Phil Schumaker had similar performance from a 3" 9mm shooting hard cast 147 grain bullets into a large brown bear that attacked some of his fly fishing clients. Killed the bear dead.
https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.wi...ls-charging-brown-bear-with-a-9mm-pistol/amp/

It is very interesting! I know a guy that shot and killed a black bear from 15 yards with a 9mm using 124gr. Remington Golden Sabre hollow points. It took several shots though. The bear was attacking a neighbor's goat named Hercules. Maybe the original advertisement for the Savage .250-3000 cartridge using a 87gr. bullet that could "kill almost any game on the planet" was more truth than advertisement? Has more ft lbs of energy than a 10mm? Ha! Ha! Ha!

 

[Thumper Mcgee]

VERY interesting. It's amazing how the bullet at that velocity given the distance, was able to pass through the buffalo's shoulder and into the boiler room and end up near the off shoulder? I wouldn't have thought it possible from a 10mm.

he used DoubleTap Ammunition 200 grain HardCast ammo for the hunt https://doubletapammo.com/products/10mm-200gr-hardcast-solid-a-20rds
Glock 20, 1300fps, 25 Yard Zero, 6000ft Elivation, .75" Sight Height, Bullet BC: .194, 10mph Cross WindåÊ

(yd)	(in)	(MOA)	(in)	(MOA)	(ft/s)	(none)	(ft‰ۢlbs)	(s)	(in)	(MOA)
Range	Drop	Drop	Windage	Windage	Velocity	Mach	Energy	Time	Lead	Lead
Calculated Table
0	-0.8	***	0.0	***	1307.5	1.196	759.0	0.000	0.0	***
25	-0.0	-0.0	0.2	0.8	1253.3	1.146	697.4	0.059	10.3	39.4
50	-0.6	-1.2	0.9	1.7	1203.4	1.101	643.0	0.120	21.1	40.2
75	-2.8	-3.5	2.0	2.5	1157.9	1.059	595.3	0.183	32.3	41.1
100	-6.5	-6.2	3.5	3.3	1117.2	1.022	554.2	0.249	43.9	41.9
125	-12.0	-9.2	5.4	4.1	1081.1	0.989	519.0	0.317	55.9	42.7
150	-19.4	-12.3	7.7	4.9	1049.3	0.960	488.9	0.388	68.3	43.5
175	-28.7	-15.7	10.4	5.7	1021.2	0.934	463.0	0.460	81.0	44.2
200	-40.1	-19.1	13.4	6.4	996.0	0.911	440.5	0.535	94.1	44.9

 

[1dirthawker]

i have seen the video before, and i gotta admit, i was surprised and impressed. keep in mind, ft lbs or joules of energy do not necessarily kill things, long holes thru vitals kills things.

shooting a cape buffalo with a 10mm is a bit of a stunt, however, koromojo bell shot them with 7mm solids out of his beloved 7x57 all the time. and had no backup, and did not appear to feel concerned about doing the deed.

archers kill cape buffalo with sub 100 ft lbs of energy all the time. with an arrow it is about the methodology of the broad head. still, not much energy hitting the animal.

a 10mm/40 cal is larger than a solid 7mm or 375 bullet as well. and close to the diameter of a 375 barnes bullet i saw pulled from a buffalo. don't misunderstand me, i don't think the 10mm is a buffalo gun, shooting a buffalo with one is a bit of a stunt, i think long term, if one hunted buffalo or lion with a 10mm handgun with no backup (like 5 hunts) something would go bad and you would end up in a hospital bed/or dead.

i think tracking lions and shooting them with a bow is the same kind of stunt. a bowhunter without back up will not survive 5 hunts of that type on a lion. the lion will turn and kill you before he possibly dies of his injuries. so, kind of a stunt in my mind.

also like some people shooting very small calibers at dangerous game, a stunt.

as mr hobbs proved once again....shot placement is everything.

 

[ChrisG]

i have seen the video before, and i gotta admit, i was surprised and impressed. keep in mind, ft lbs or joules of energy do not necessarily kill things, long holes thru vitals kills things.

shooting a cape buffalo with a 10mm is a bit of a stunt, however, koromojo bell shot them with 7mm solids out of his beloved 7x57 all the time. and had no backup, and did not appear to feel concerned about doing the deed.

archers kill cape buffalo with sub 100 ft lbs of energy all the time. with an arrow it is about the methodology of the broad head. still, not much energy hitting the animal.

a 10mm/40 cal is larger than a solid 7mm or 375 bullet as well. and close to the diameter of a 375 barnes bullet i saw pulled from a buffalo. don't misunderstand me, i don't think the 10mm is a buffalo gun, shooting a buffalo with one is a bit of a stunt, i think long term, if one hunted buffalo or lion with a 10mm handgun with no backup (like 5 hunts) something would go bad and you would end up in a hospital bed/or dead.

i think tracking lions and shooting them with a bow is the same kind of stunt. a bowhunter without back up will not survive 5 hunts of that type on a lion. the lion will turn and kill you before he possibly dies of his injuries. so, kind of a stunt in my mind.

also like some people shooting very small calibers at dangerous game, a stunt.

as mr hobbs proved once again....shot placement is everything.

Shot placement IS everything... but humans are not infallible so margin for error is very important. I agree with you. It is definitley a stunt. If he kept doing over and over, every time, his odds of it catching up to him or one of his poor PHs or... heaven forbid a wounded buff gets away... some poor villager, keep increasing. All it would take is a mild lapse of concentration or an invisible stick in the way to eat up that margin of error real quick and then hope another shot presents itself.

It doesnt take many foot pounds of energy to kill. Im sure a few ft-lbs is all it would take to drive a razor sharp broadhead through an elephant's hide and muscle, slip between some ribs and puncture the heart to eventually kill the largest land animal alive today. But margin for error is practically nothing. Simply a stunt to prove you can kill a dangerous animal with a sharp stick if push comes to shove, but not an idea that many people repeatedly duplicate and still get to die of old age in their bed.

 

[mark-hunter]

@1dirthawker
I think you used the perfect word.
It is a stunt.
And let me add, definetly not a routine.

 

[CJW]

I love these threads.

 

[CoElkHunter]

Now here's a Buffalo pistol! Must be cause it’s evidently the “Hunting Handgun of the Year”! Ha! Ha! Ha!

 

[IvW]

Another wanna betv personality.....I think he wounded and lost 2 or 3 buffalo before.....

 

[CoElkHunter]

Another wanna betv personality.....I think he wounded and lost 2 or 3 buffalo before.....

Yeah, I think it's ludicrous! I personally would no more hunt a buffalo with a 10mm (and probably any handgun) than fly to OZ in a hang glider! But, to each their own.

 

[mark-hunter]

But, to each their own.

And to the outfitters that provide such hunts.

 

[ChrisG]

And to the outfitters that provide such hunts.

There's no doubt he was backed by someone with a very large gun. Not dissimilar from journalists who take one flight in a jet aircraft then claims they flew a fighter jet when they had the 20 year veteran pilot in the seat behind them doing 98% of the work but let them steer for 30 seconds.

 

[crs]

As some of you already know, Mike Rintoul ,owner of Grizzly Cartridge, hunts with rifles and hand guns with his ammo. IIRC, he has done this twice with handguns in Africa. He regularly shoots game in USA with them. Mike accompanied a friend (Joe) and I to a hunt on a part of a well known Central Texas Ranch a few years ago. Mike with 10 mm pistol Joe with muzzle loader went off and shot some deer and exotics while my guide took me for a ride looking for Axis doe. I shot two feral hogs with my .308 and wounded and lost an Axis doe.
Our post hunt analysis concluded that my frontal facing shot that knocked the Axis down was too high for the heart and too low for the spine - never argue with PH (Joe).
Shot placement rules.

 

[Probono]

Early man used to kill mammoths using nothing but sharpened sticks, so to kill a buffalo using a 10mm is very believable and nowhere near as impressive.