9.3x64mm Brenneke

[PaulT]

In reply to the above posts;

*post 16 Bebo,
yes without a doubt no-one is going to argue that, compared to the .375h&h, the 9.3x64mm is ALMOST obsolete, almost.

Yes, components ARE difficult to source and YES the .375 IS an excellent cartridge that does most/all jobs asked of it in an exemplary manner. I know as I have two rifles chambered for the .375 currently, both used A LOT on buffalo, feral cattle, wild boar and feral horses and they (the .375's) do these jobs in a hassle free manner.
For most hunters the .375 makes the most sense, without a doubt.

BUT, the 9.3x64mm IS NOT DEAD.
Components, as difficult to find as they are, THEY ARE available.
Brass from Norma and R.W.S is relatively simple to find.
With 200-300 cases your almost set for life, bullets are common and easy to source and dies are available from several sources.
The 9.3x64 is a cartridge I have had a facination with for many, many years and to me is something that I wish to gain some praticle field experience with on the game mentioned above.

*post 17 Classicsafari,
Adam, I've seen pics of that rifle that you have posted elsewhere.
Very nicely done.
What action is this one built on ?
Also, I am chasing a variety of load data and would be interested in hearing what loads your man has built up for that gun, if that is possilbe.
Thanks in advance.

*post 20 Karl Stumpfe,
Hey Karl, how's it ?
Who are YOU calling short !!!!!!!!!
(they say people who live in glass houses shouldn't walk around in the nude !!).

You must be the metric caliber Mogul !
I knew you had a 7x64 and an 8x68, but a 9.3x64 AS WELL, SHEEESH.

Is that your .450 at the top of the heap ?

Nice battery of rifles there Karl.

Cheers,

Paul.

 

[DOC-404]

I have a 9,3x64 and I absolutely love it. I wrote an article on it a long time ago, I will scan and email to you when I find it (Im off to barbeque some ribs, and watch rugby.)

..aah, I see you cut the toes out of the photo now Karl.. :biggrin2:

 

[bebo]

Pault Post #21

"BUT, the 9.3x64mm IS NOT DEAD."

I wish, I wish, I hope . Understand "I love" this cartridge but ...

My old rifle (used, bought to a PH) : "gunsmith" ? True Mauser action (9.3x64 Brenneke), scope "Nickel" with a true "Shul " mount . I dont know the word for this kind of mount , sorry ..
Very, very accuracy ! and powerful .. I used RWS Tug : fabulous cartridge. barrel lenght 26".. :goodbye:

Replaced by Rem 700 Safari .375 H&H , replaced by the last Winch 70 Safari Express .375 H&H ... Winch is back !

 

[Otto Knaus]

Hello Paul, I very much enjoyed reading the commentary. I will get to Africa one day, neither here nor there to me at the moment I will need to be happy with shaggy goats in Western Australia for the present. My battle is this I also am fascinated by the 9.3 x 64 but also the 8 x 68S but I will only buy one ! ! !. This has tormented me for about 4 years. There are extraordinary projectiles available for the 62 therefore the 64 from 226g to 320g and if I can line up someone to load for me, what a broad game rifle. So I've really enjoyed this thread and will prob go new in a Mannlicher. Even over here in Oz we now have some bigger deer and buff up north 30cal is just not a big enough stick which I have. Whats my next rifle ? you've helped me decide, thank you.

 

[Mannlicher]

True Mauser action (9.3x64 Brenneke), scope "Nickel" with a true "Shul " mount . I dont know the word for this kind of mount , sorry ..

It is the so called " Suhler Einhak - Montage"( SEM) ........

Mannlicher

 

[PaulT]

Hello Paul, I very much enjoyed reading the commentary. I will get to Africa one day, neither here nor there to me at the moment I will need to be happy with shaggy goats in Western Australia for the present. My battle is this I also am fascinated by the 9.3 x 64 but also the 8 x 68S but I will only buy one ! ! !. This has tormented me for about 4 years. There are extraordinary projectiles available for the 62 therefore the 64 from 226g to 320g and if I can line up someone to load for me, what a broad game rifle. So I've really enjoyed this thread and will prob go new in a Mannlicher. Even over here in Oz we now have some bigger deer and buff up north 30cal is just not a big enough stick which I have. Whats my next rifle ? you've helped me decide, thank you.

Otto, firstly, welcome to Africahunting.com

Your comments re the 9.3x64 are well appreciated, though I am still none the wiser as I continue to wait for the firearm to be completed.
The gun building process is not for the faint-hearted, nor the impatient !

Regarding your comments, I don't think you HAVE to hunt Africa to warrant an "exotic" caliber such as the x64. Those shaggy Western Australian goats will be in for a rude shock after running into a nice 286gn or such like.
No doubt the 8x68s is also a desirable cartridge, and if you were sure you would not travel and only hunt at home, other than buffalo, the 8mm would also be quite handy for any Australian hunting.
Personally, I have other rifles that will do these tasks hence moving up to the 9.3

If you DO decide to go down this track understand that getting some of the components can take time and is expensive.
Cases especially.
In saying that, there are a number of 9.3x64mm shooters in Australia and that does create demand for components, although on a limited scale.
Dies are easy to get and inexpensive.

A mannlicher-stocked, 20" barreled rifle in 9.3x64mm would indeed be a very nice !

Good-luck, keep us informed.

 

[bebo]

with delay ....
@Mannlicher,
Thanks for the information : " Suhler Einhak - Montage"( SEM), I never can remember the name of this "fabulous" mount.

 

[PaulT]

Well fellas, it's finally here in my hands.

A long awaited dream rifle.

Details;
# Argentine '09 action
# 22" Lilja barrel, cerakote non-glare finish
# xxx English walnut from Walnut Grove Gunstocks (Idaho)
# metalwork by J.kobe
# Woodwork by Wes Chapman at Accurate Innovations.

I will begin load development and shooting over the next couple of months.

Apologies for the average quality of the images.

Paul.

 

[sestoppelman]

Hey Paul, good to hear from you! That is a pretty darn good looking rifle! Love that wood. A very powerful and useful round, be good to see how it pans out. Have fun!

 

[enysse]

That rifle is very beautiful, nice wood.

 

[PaulT]

Thanks for the comments Ses and Enysse.
I am having a couple of "tweaks" applied by my gunsmith and will then begin load testing and development.
I will be aiming at 250gn T.S.X's at around 2600 - 2700fps, depending on reasonable grouping.

That should make this gun a reasonable option for any sized soft skinned game.

 

[Russel. G. Keith]

Hi Guys.
I have seldom used the 9.3 x 64 but I have owned and used a 9.3 x 62 for a long time.
But the following I can tell you. The 9.3x64 was just a little to fast and suffered from bullet failure.
In this regard nothing has changed.
If I might suggest it will be best stick to premium bullets and or stick to 9.3x62 velocities.
Take care of higher velosities with the Barns x type bullets as they may over expand and not give you the penetration that the 9.3s are famed for.
Have fun and enjoy.
Be safe
Russe;

 

[PaulT]

Russel,
thank-you for your feedback.

All of my previous experience with the Barnes T.S.X's has been extremely positive, although I have not used projectiles in the 9.3mm class therefore I will heed your warnings.

You speak as though you have had occasion to be disappointed with the performance of the T.S.X's and I would be very interested in hearing about those experiences.

In the build up to receiving this rifle I have corresponded with a few hunters who are currently using this cartridge on game, including one particular individual who is using this cartridge and load in Alaska successfully on both Moose and Caribou with very satisfactory results.

It was never my intent to use this cartridge/load for buffalo, or any other thick skinned game.
I have other firearms which are much more suited to thick skinned game, the 9.3x64 is intended to take the place of my .375 for use on large-sized thin-skinned game.

Thanks again,

Paul.

 

[Russel. G. Keith]

Hi Paul
Regarding the Barns x bullets the SA man magnum publication did a report on the Barnes x and optimum velosities if you can get a hold of the article I suggest you may find it very interesting. Sadly when I moved to the UK most of my Gatherings had to go, along with it a lot of hunting info.
For my hunting I settled on a dual diamiter lathe turned mono metal bullet of 270 grains.
The bullet had the standard 9.3/366 shank a sharp cutting shoulder and a slightly tapered fore end. They were either round nosed and or full patch.
To tell the truth at the ranges I hunted 100 yds and far far less ( in the thick stuff as often as not) I could not tell any difference in either bullets performance but the penetration was amazing on a par with 375 with far less fuss and bother.
The damage caused by the cutting shoulder was outstanding with very little blood shot meat.
After finding these bullets I used nothing else. I got them from GS custom which I believe is now in the USA.
A word of caution DONT use the Speer 270 grain bullets at anything more than 9.3x57 velosities'
They are simply far far to fragile and in the 9.3x64 they would be nothing more than very heavy varmint bullets .
Enjoy your project.
Be safe
Russel

 

[spike.t]

nice looking rifle paul and the wood is great

 

[PaulT]

Russel, thank-you for your response and advice regarding the performance of various projectiles.

Prior to relying on any one load or bullet combination I will be testing extensively on feral animals such as pigs, donkeys and feral horses, testing for penetration etc.
I am aware that, back in the day, Barnes did experience some quality control issues during certain periods of manufacture. I am hoping that the sizeable stash of Tripple Shoks that I have laid in my reloading stock are not effected.
I also intend building up a load for the 255gn C.E.B Safari Raptor LG version.
My experience with this projectile has shown less pressure for more velocity, excellent penetration and massive internal damage.

"nice looking rifle paul and the wood is great".
Thanks Spike.
Asthetics was not the focus with this rifle, but I certainly did get lucky with the blank from Chris Schofield.
The feel and balance is outstanding, i'm hoping that it shoots as good as it looks !

Paul.

 

[Russel. G. Keith]

Hi Paul
Very nice rifle, but to my eye a little naked..................no iron sights.
Yes I am of the generation that has yet to gain full trust in scopes even in scopes of exceptional quality like those you have mounted on your rifle.
But then to each his own.
One of the GREAT joys of our sport/addiction.
Have a good one
Be safe
Russel

 

[PaulT]

Well, finally, I got this rifle back from my smith, complete and ready to rock-n-roll and got her out on the range for some initial load testing and barrel "breaking-in".

Before going any further I need to comment on the superb feel of the stock produced by Wes Chapman at Accurate Innovations. It is extremely comfortable to hold and shoot and should make an exceptional hunting piece.

For my first range testing I took some loads assembled with R 15 and Barnes 250gn T.S.X's ranging from 64gns through to 69gns and also chronographed and grouped some factory RWS 193gn T.U.G's.

The R.W.S loads chrony'd 2500fps which is quite surprising since my barrel is only 21.5" long and cut the same hole at 50yds and then about 3/4" at 100. Very impressed.
Recoil was on par with a light weight .375

My hand-loads ranged from 2460fps from the lighter 64gn loads through to 2690fps+ from the top load of 69gns which proved to be a little too warm for regular use (slightly sticky on the bolt up-lift) for this rifle.
Accuracy was simply astonishing with a total of 30 shots fired all maintaining the same vertical line, rising slightly as powder charge increased and all grouping tight clusters of between 1/2 to 1 " groups !!!
This Lilja barrel is simply outstanding.

To say I am satisfied with the general performance of the firearm at this stage would be an understatement.

Accuracy is beyond what I would normally be satisfied with, or need, in a rifle of this caliber and the handling characteristics go well beyond my expectations.

I must admit at being a little deflated at the results of the R15 hand-loads, I was expecting (led to believe) velocities to be higher then those registered by my chronograph, but as they say in the classics; such is life !

Plenty more experimenting to go yet, but at least the gun is now sighted and ready to hunt with should I wish to do so, and any of you that know me well will know that hunting this rifle is a priority. (tentatively planning to go bush next week, should time permit)

I'm really starting to warm to the 9.3 !

 

[PHOENIX PHIL]

Paul,

Sorry if I missed it, but what wood did Wes talk you into for that very pretty stock? Also, since you'll be in Dallas, will you be coming to the AH dinner?

Phil

 

[PaulT]

Paul,

Sorry if I missed it, but what wood did Wes talk you into for that very pretty stock? Also, since you'll be in Dallas, will you be coming to the AH dinner?

Phil

G'day Phil, I actually bought the blank from Chris Schofeild at Walnut Grove gunstocks in Idaho and sent it to Wes for shaping, and an excellent job he did of that ! This piece also has one of Wes's aluminium chassis.

Regarding Dallas, I cannot commit to being there for the dinner but am certainly trying to aim to join the crown for a few drinks at the very least.

Cheers,

Paul.