9.3X62 for Cape Buffalo?

[Longwalker]

No argument from me! Especially since I have no experience with buffalo. ( yet) It's a fun discussion though.

 

[Rule 303]

I've never shot anything larger than an Eland with my 35 Whelen. Both bullets were pass throughs. I guess I could concede the penetration argument between a 225 Gr Whelen and a 286 Gr 9.3. However if we up the anti on the Whelen to a 250 Gr Bullet the energy at 100 yards is 3088 lbs vs 2953lbs for the 9.3. At 200 yards the Whelen yields 2619 lbs vs 2462 for the 9.3. At what point does a slight difference in bullet weight become a non factor. I guess what I'm trying to say is that IF a 9.3 x 62 is adequate for buffalo than a 35 Whelen should be adequate also.

A couple of days ago I asked if a 400 Gr Hornady InterBond bullet (90 + percent retention) in a 416 Rigby could be used for Buffalo. The consensus boiled down to (probably not) citing that Swift A Frames would be significantly better. Given good shot placement, how much gun does it take to "drop" one of these things?

Most of the responses to your question were about the structure of the Hornady bullet. I for one, there others I have read of, have no faith in the Hornady holding together for enough penetration to do the job. 400 grain projectile in 416 will do the job but it needs to be of tough construction and the Hornady is not. Woodleighs and A frames will give you the penetration required.

Re the Whelen. Run 275 grain pills and compare the penetration to the 9.3x62 286. Close as you can get in comparing apples to apples. I like the Whelen and the 9.3x62 is a great cartridge but does not float my boat. However comparing a 35Whelen to a 9.3x62 is a closer comparison than saying a 9.3x62 matches the 375H&H.

 

[Bushpig4Ever]

According to my calcs the 9.3 would not be legal on buff in Zim as it does not make the energy requirements.

Well, famous Dr. Kevin (Doctari) Robertson killed +- 600 buffalo with a 9,3x62. Where? Zimbabwe... Doctari is a Vet plus PH.

 

[Witold Krzyżanowski]

9,3 x62 is very good for dangerous game. I use cartridges from RWS with bullet TUG Brenneke 19g ( 293 gr ) and 5200J energy.
Witold

 

[IvW]

With the right bullet the 9.3x62 is more than capable of killing any buffalo as long as the shooter does his/her part.

The only restriction would be the legality of the caliber in whichever country you want to hunt buffalo. Most countries specify 375 H&H as the minimum.

As great as the caliber is, I would however not want to follow up on a wounded buffalo with one.

 

[Ernie Shipman]

I just took a Merkel RX Helix in 9.3x62 to SA for a PG hunt. My PH said he would be fine in guiding anyone with a 9.3 on buff hunt

 

[rnovi]

I just took a Merkel RX Helix in 9.3x62 to SA for a PG hunt. My PH said he would be fine in guiding anyone with a 9.3 on buff hunt

I just needed to comment: finally! Another hunter with a Merkel Helix in the USA!

I have two actions, three stocks (one new synth, one beater synth, one grade 6 wood!) and three barrels; 6.5x55, 7mm RM, 9.3x62.

I truly love the rifle but dang if it isn't finicky with reloads. I'm still trying to figure it out but brass length seems to be an issue. Or maybe it's OAL.

Either way, my top 9.3x62 load of a 286 Partition over Ramshot Big Game (max load) clocks in at 2,550. No sticky cases but the brass definitely shows signs of expansion at the base. Oddly, it's the 6.5x55 loads that give me the most challenge.

I get 3/4" groups with the 9.3. Really a great rifle that may never be appreciated to its fullest in the USA.

 

[leslie hetrick]

I shot this cow with a old 9.3x62 with a solid copper bullet at 80-90 yards out of a old MS, the first shot tore the blood vessels off the top of the heart(dead but didn,t know it yet), the second shot at 40 yards broke its back and it went right down. picture is of the first bullet. les

 

[416Tanzan]

9.3x62 is a great calibre and as was demonstrated earlier in this thread a person must check and see what the laws are for the particular country. For a country like Tanzania, one would be recommended to get at least a .375" (either H&H or Ruger, the law does not distinguish).

Local hunters in Africa have taken many buffalo with smaller caliber, like 270, 7x57, 308, 30-06, 303, etc., but the stories of tragedy increase as well with smaller calibers. In terms of 'bang for buck' the CZ's are pretty hard to beat, though there is now credible competition from the 375 Ruger and 416 Ruger. The main and best preparation for a buffalo hunter is practicing with whatever rifle he or she may use. They must feel comfortable with the rifle and must treat it as a hunting rifle, the same as if it were a 243, 270, or 30-06. Then they will use the rifle's inherent accuracy and place a tough, deep-penetrating bullet in the right spot.

 

[Daga Boy]

The 9.3 x 62 used to be one of the most popular large medium/transition calibres in Africa. It slipped in popularity post WW2 but is now making a huge comeback. Although many countries stipulate .375 as a minimum for buff there is a pretty much universal exception iro the 9.3, which has the same ballistics as the 9.3 x 74R.
I favour this calibre as general bush gun. It is great on all large antelope and you can also take lion, buffalo and even elephant with it. As velocities are relatively low bullet failures are pretty much unheard of, even at very close ranges.
Terminal effect is much the same as with a 375 H&H. In fact often better at close range due to reduced velocity and high SD if normal weight bullets are used. (Note: Many people here have switched to very heavy bullets in the 375, which changes its character, making it closer to a 416 in terminal performance).
Thousands of buffalo (and also elephant for that matter) have been taken with this calibre and many prefer it to the 375 H&H, so if you have one use it.
I would not use it as a back up weapon on dangerous game, but then backing up is a specialised application which calls for specialised tools (like a .470 NE double) and it is an activity which most client hunters will never really participate in.

 

[Witold Krzyżanowski]

I agree with you Daga Boy.

 

[Rick Cox]

Interesting. Maybe I've been underselling this round? I've always looked at it as a slightly more potent .35 Whelen and I wouldn't want no parts of a Cape Buffalo with a .35 Whelen. But it may be that there is a lot more difference between these two cartridges than I thought?

Just to be a prick, here is the data regards the 35 Whelen and the 6.3x62. As you will see there is virtually no difference with the same bullet weights. There is only .008" difference in diameter. Data from both is through a 26" barrel.
From the Nosler reloading manual:
35 Whelen (.358) - 250 gr. max load 2637fps. BC 446. SD 229
6.2 x 63 (.366) - 250 gr. max load 2583fps. BC .494 BC 267
35 Whelen - .275gr. 2400fps ( data on line) 6.3x62 2414 (Nosler data)
I think the Whelen would be as good on buff as the 6.3.

 

[leslie hetrick]

i have used a m s 9.3x62 in Africa(cow buffalo) and had no problems with it, but I think the 35 whelen would do just as good as a 9.3x62(I own two whelens, a ruger#1 and a rem pump) has a better selection of bullets here in the states along with cases.

 

[Rule 303]

I am sorry but I think Daga Boy is smoking something or had a bit much to drink. The 9.3X62 is a damn good cartridge there is no disputing that but a 375 it ain't and there is a noticeable difference in terminal performance between the two. If a 375cal 300 grain bullet fails to penetrate when close then use a harder bullet.
The 35 Whelen is closer to the 9.3X62 than the 9.3X62 is to the 375 H&H/Ruger. Now if you want to say the 9.3X64 is close to the 375 H&H/Ruger, no argument from me on that one, especially if loaded to it's potential.

Using a 350 grain bullet in a 375 H&H/Ruger of course will make it closer to the 416's but it is still a long way from a 416 with a 400grain bullet, let alone a 45o grain bullet.

 

[leslie hetrick]

i agree that the 375 HH is on a much higher plain than either the 35 whelen and the 9.3x62, I just bought my second .375 H&H in a cz-550, the same model I used on 90 percent of the animals I shot in Africa. when I shot the cow buffalo with the 9.3x62 I had bigger back up.

 

[IvW]

Just to be a prick, here is the data regards the 35 Whelen and the 6.3x62. As you will see there is virtually no difference with the same bullet weights. There is only .008" difference in diameter. Data from both is through a 26" barrel.
From the Nosler reloading manual:
35 Whelen (.358) - 250 gr. max load 2637fps. BC 446. SD 229
6.2 x 63 (.366) - 250 gr. max load 2583fps. BC .494 BC 267
35 Whelen - .275gr. 2400fps ( data on line) 6.3x62 2414 (Nosler data)
I think the Whelen would be as good on buff as the 6.3.

What are these 6.3x62 and 6.2x63's you talk of?

 

[Rick Cox]

What are these 6.3x62 and 6.2x63's you talk of?

Oh brother... that's embarrassing..

 

[bilmcc]

Just to be a prick, here is the data regards the 35 Whelen and the 6.3x62. As you will see there is virtually no difference with the same bullet weights. There is only .008" difference in diameter. Data from both is through a 26" barrel.
From the Nosler reloading manual:
35 Whelen (.358) - 250 gr. max load 2637fps. BC 446. SD 229
6.2 x 63 (.366) - 250 gr. max load 2583fps. BC .494 BC 267
35 Whelen - .275gr. 2400fps ( data on line) 6.3x62 2414 (Nosler data)
I think the Whelen would be as good on buff as the 6.3.

It is clear from this that if you use a light load in the 9.3x62 (try 286 gr and not 250) and push the 35 Whelan, they are close to equal. There are some whomper, stomper loads that make my 44 mag into the equivalent of a light 454 Casull, too. I like 35's, but I think the 9.3x74r is a lot more fun. Chose a boosted 30-06 or a classic African round.

 

[Daga Boy]

Mmm, reality is that you cant actually gauge performance on paper and sometimes things work the opposite to what one might think. eg , both the 9.3 x 64 Brenneke and the 375H&H (moderrn loads, not original) had reputations as "bullet eaters", especially on heavy bones - like elephant heads , for example. The 9.3 x 64 has pretty much disappeared but the 375 H&H has remained, and the problems of bullet fragmentation , fishtailing, etc continued. (You can find reports in old copies of a few African hunting mags).
Don Heath ("Ganyana") discovered that the the problem could be cured by reducing the muzzle velocity of the 375 H&H by about 200fps, bringing the cartridge back to its original spec. He was also a big fan of the 9.3 x 62, which has never been known as a bullet eater. Few people have had the amount of real life experience that he had, so that is my point of reference. (Note that current 9.3 x 62 performance is pretty much exactly the same as original 375 H&H spec, which is what the 375 built its fame on.)
The tendency here now is to load the 375H&H with heavier bullets (350-380gr) for big game applications. This reduces velocity at the same time increasing penetration. So loaded the 375 is not far off the .416 Rem. - which is my preferred calibre for dangerous game - but now I am getting a bit off Piste.
As far as the 35 Whelan is concerned, it is basically unknown on this side of the pond, so I am not aware of any reports of its performance. Also, it is not legal for use on dangerous game in any country that I am aware of.
I should add that a lot of this minimum calibre thing is a bit misguided and actually based on the performance of cartridges and bullets prior to the second world war (or earlier). I say this specifically because the reality is that the .338WM (a smaller calibre than the 9.3 but a more powerful cartridge) actually does a fantastic job on buffalo, hippo, etc (no reports about elephant but I cant imagine there would be a problem, especially with a brain shot). In fact the only problem that it exhibits is "over penetration" - as in maybe getting two buffalo with one shot (which has happened).
Modern monometal bullets have also significantly affected the potential of old cartridges, turning them into completely different animals.
It should also not be forgotten that many elephants were taken with the humble 7 x 57 Mauser - notably by "Karamojo" Bell, but he was not alone in this.
So the reality is that these minimum calibre restrictions could do with a total review.
Food for thought.

 

[HWL]

I shot this cow with a old 9.3x62 with a solid copper bullet at 80-90 yards out of a old MS, the first shot tore the blood vessels off the top of the heart(dead but didn,t know it yet), the second shot at 40 yards broke its back and it went right down. picture is of the first bullet. les

View attachment 215557 View attachment 215558

I like the Mannlicher-Schoenauer going africa..... just have the chance to buy one in 9,3x62!

...untouched, unmounted, like facory new...


HWL