8x68S owner's opinions

[Gert Odendaal]

Dave , in South Africa we have the 30-06 versus the .308 caliber debate ..it is a never ending debate ....that is why I prefer German designed caliber rifles..it keeps me above the debate..give me more time to plan my hunting /hunt while the debate rages on...

 

[Gert Odendaal]

Dave, I really do not know why there is a debate regarding the 9mm versus the .45 mm..it is absolutely clear the .45 cal is the best hand gun of all calibers...especially if it is build on the 1911 platform

 

[Gert Odendaal]

Members I uploaded some photos of the 8x68S building process I am currently busy with:
The action I am using is a Mauser MOD 98 Obendorf standard action. I opened it up by milling away a part of the stripper clip groove, to lengthen the OAL of 91mm round. The reason (my personal opinion) being since the RWS brass has lees water capacity than other 8x68S brass --to make up for lost powder space I am increasing the OAL of the round to 91mm that will compensate for lost space and enable the 91mm round to work at it`s maxsimum performance...I will be loading the 8x68S round at "hot levels" since it was design to be re-load to these loads..shooting out to 400 meters at least with a 220 gn bullet...as pointed out this is my own perspective in this regards..feel free to correct me where my assumptions are incorrect...since we were taught in the army many years ago that " assumptions are the mother of all..$$##*&^%*&%$##@.. bugger-ups...
I did not remove any metal at the front part of the bridge but only to the rear part of the action...the magazine box will be completed soon..I will mill out a complete enlarged magazine box from a block of steel...here is what I have done already..trying to accessorized the action by lapping the lugs , I still need to open up the bolt face, this will happen the coming week
Will upload the media when it is uploaded on the media upload site...

 

[Gert Odendaal]

Members I uploaded some photos of the 8x68S building process I am currently busy with:
The action I am using is a Mauser MOD 98 Obendorf standard action. I opened it up by milling away a part of the stripper clip groove, to lengthen the OAL of 91mm round. The reason (my personal opinion) being since the RWS brass has lees water capacity than other 8x68S brass --to make up for lost powder space I am increasing the OAL of the round to 91mm that will compensate for lost space and enable the 91mm round to work at it`s maxsimum performance...I will be loading the 8x68S round at "hot levels" since it was design to be re-load to these loads..shooting out to 400 meters at least with a 220 gn bullet...as pointed out this is my own perspective in this regards..feel free to correct me where my assumptions are incorrect...since we were taught in the army many years ago that " assumptions are the mother of all..$$##*&^%*&%$##@.. bugger-ups...
I did not remove any metal at the front part of the bridge but only to the rear part of the action...the magazine box will be completed soon..I will mill out a complete enlarged magazine box from a block of steel...here is what I have done already..trying to accessorized the action by lapping the lugs , I still need to open up the bolt face, this will happen the coming week
Will upload the media when it is uploaded on the media upload site...

Work done on the action:

 

[Gert Odendaal]

As pointed out previously in this build, I really want to build a classic designed rifle. The stock will be a real classic, due to the height of the claw mounts/scope rings I need to incorporate a high comb to enable me to line my eyes up to the scope when aiming. The rest of the stock will be a straight , back sweeping grip to neutralise felt recoil. The barrel is a heavy sporter barrel that will assist to neutralise some of the felt recoil as well...I need to keep a balance between slim lines and enough wood material to strengthen the rifle stock ...recoil lugs ( x2) will be fitted as well as a recessed butt stock magazine well...

 

[Gert Odendaal]

Comparison between standard magazine box and a magnum/enlarged magazine box I need to mill out of a solid bar steel

 

[Gert Odendaal]

Some things I noticed: Milling this action was difficult , even with using a new straight shank milling bit the milling process was slow and difficult due to the hardness of this action, including the use of a lot of cooling/cutting fluid, Filing work on the milled surface was slow and took quite a while.
I now have completed lapping the lugs , there is more than 95% surface contact on the front locking lugs,,while absolutely no contact on the rear lug surface which is an indication that the bolt lock perfectly. The bolt handle is bend and sanded smooth, the claw mount bases fitted quite nicely. When receiving the barrel I need to ensure the barrel threaded end fits 100% into the action to do head spacing.
What is left on the bolt is to open up the bolt face to accommodate the 8x68S round.

My focus is now on working the Wall-nut stock blank to a classic design with a high comb that will enable me to line my eyes with the scope. It still will be a straight stock to neutralise felt recoil.
This is still the design I am working towards:

 

[Gert Odendaal]

Von Gruff, I am in need of your assistance in regards to work out how high I need to make the comb to align my eyes for getting a sight picture through the rifle scope?

 

[nztimb]

What you can do Gert is to take a short length of broom handle and hold it under your cheekbone where the comb would go. Hold it level and sit a rule on top and look into a mirror so you can read the distance to the center of your eye. This is the ideal for maximum cheek support and propper eye alignment. You can then measure from the center of your scope to the bore line which is also the top line of the forestock and project this line backward so you can plot where the comb nose needs to be. If you have very high scope mounts you may find that there is no clearance for the bolt travel over the comb so some compromise may be required between optimum comb height at the nose and the amount of drop to the heel.

 

[Gert Odendaal]

Thank you kindly for this informative reply, it is much appreciated Garry...I will commence working on the stock design this week. I have thought about taking another piece of any commercial wood with he same measurements/dimensions and build a rifle stock of the design I need when the stock is completed, then put this example in the rifle stock duplicator machine and cut the final product to size/measurements ..this may sound like much extra work..not really..I then have the advantage of the know-how/completed specific measurements already on the example??? Garry what is your opinion in this regards??

 

[nztimb]

I have done the same thing Gert from a piece of straight grain rimu just to check everything before starting on a good walnut blank.Mind you I still hand make the second stock as well. My hands and eyes are the the duplicator

 

[nztimb]

What I would do if you are going to do a trial stock and want a classic stock style with the heads up type of shooting is to look at an inch and three quarters (44mm) drop at heel and make the comb nose to just clear the bolt handle on withdrawl. The is the maximun comb nose height you can have under any circumstances so when you can settle the action in the stock with scope in place you will be able to see if you can get onto the scope center with cheek weld or whether you will need to have lower jaw support instead. It is not an innacurate way of shooting as the Germanic scope style attests to. It is only the fully rested and often prone type of shooting that has become almost universal over the last few years that has bought about the very tight cheek weld theory that most seem to think is necessary for an accurate shot. Many dead animals will attest to the fallacy of that train of practice.
Another thing to keep in mind is that a slightly rounder rather than slim comb shape will help to raise the eye .

 

[Gert Odendaal]

I have done the same thing Gert from a piece of straight grain rimu just to check everything before starting on a good walnut blank.Mind you I still hand make the second stock as well. My hands and eyes are the the duplicator

Yes, Garry I think i tis the best manner to proceed if a person want to spend a lot of technical detail on the second stock for a rifle build. The difference is that I do not have the master builder skills you have..so I will duplicate the dummy and still have to complete the stock since it is not perfectly completed by the duplicator machine Johan Greyling build.

 

[Gert Odendaal]

Garry, I would like to hear your opinion in regards to this example..what changes will you effect on this stock to accommodate the claw mount scopes in this example since this example already has a scope fitted?

 

[Gert Odendaal]

Garry here is some definitions regarding the parts of a rifle stock..will you please use these definitions/parts description to assist me in explaining what I need to look at to ensure my eyes align with the scope on the claw mounts...

 

[Gert Odendaal]

Looking at the last photos I believe it will be good to raise the comb and give it a large round bevel so the comb is thick and the bolt will travel over the comb when reloading a round and ejecting a round..do I need to carve a cheek piece into the stock or can I just make a flat sided butt stock Looking at this photo I assume the height of this comb is quite a distance below the rifle bolt and therefore it would be possible to raise the comb by 44 mm ???
I do not want this type of heel..I want a full length butt stock ending in a heel..

 

[nztimb]

The sample mannlicher stock you show Gert really only needs the point of the comb raised till it just allows for bolt travel with the heel 44mm below bore centerlne. This will give you a classic look to the stock but with the raised point of comb it may eccentuate the visual drop at heel.

Have a look at my stock layout in my thread on the 6.5x57 build . https://www.africahunting.com/threads/a-1916-erfurt-small-ring-project.26236/

 

[Gert Odendaal]

Garry I really appreciate your assistance in this regards..I will cut myself a trail stock tomorrow and commence with the outlay...

 

[Russ-F]

Gert,
With the relatively high claw mounts it’s unlikely you’ll be able to raise the comb enough to both give your cheek really good contact on the stock & allow the bolt to be operated. Of course it depends on the shape & size of your face but be prepared to accept a lower than ideal comb.

Claw mounts are lovely on falling block or double rifles where there’s far more liberty to raise the comb height if required. On bolt action rifles there are ways of having a quickly detachable scope which still allow a low scope height.

Regards
Russ

 

[Gert Odendaal]

Thank you Russ, yes you are correct, I know there are going to be trade-offs...the classic design weigh heavier than the perfect comb hight ...it is not a dangerous game rifle that needs to point fast and accurate...as a hunting scoped rifle this 8x68S will have enough time to aim and to get a good sight picture...still I need to get it as near to perfect as possible ..