7x57 or 7x64

[Scrumbag]

Quite a piece eh?

 

[Redruff]

She's a thing of beauty!

R.

 

[D.M.V]

I know when I saw those pics I started drooling. I can't find the picture of the bolt it's finished in gold in lay with a outline of India on it

 

[Michael Dean]

With the 7x57 you're going to find twice as many options for cartridges to choose from. If someone doesn't reload the 7x57 is the obvious choice.

 

[Steve Steyr]

My experience, and I believe you are talking about factory loads: I'm not sure what brands of factory fodder you have access to.
7x64 Brenneke, Ruger 77RS 22" barrel.
175 gr Remington PSPCL = .8" at 100 yards
170 gr Norma Semi spritzer = .85" at 100 yards.
My carefully tailored handloads using bullets from 140 grains to 175 grains shoot from 1.1" to 1.5". Can't seem to put together a sub-1" load.
Velocity of the 175 grain Remington PSPCL is 2563 fps.
7x57 Mauser Winchester Model 70 Lightweight 22" barrel
175 gr PMC = .33" to .6" at 100 yards
173 gr S&B SPCE = .5" to .7"
These two brands are probably the most accurate factory loads I have ever fired in any rifle.
175 gr PRVI = 1.5-2" at 100 yards
175 gr Federal = 1.2-1.5"
150 gr Norma (old ammo) = @1"
Velocity of the 175's runs from 2350 to 2410 fps
Velocity with the older Norma 150 grain loads was listed at 2756 fps and usually clocked from 2690 2770 fps.
Except for the older Norma loads, all 7x57 ammo is underloaded by manufacturers.
That being said, either rifle should have no problems with 250m shots. Just learn your trajectory and get a reference point on your scope's crosshairs.
Personally, I have worked with the 7x57 for over 40 years now, the 7x64 for only 5 years or so. I prefer the 7x57 as, at least the ones I have owned, they have been more accurate than my limited experience with the 7x64.
Neither one would be a mistake.

 

[sestoppelman]

My CZ 7x64 is the most accurate hunting rifle I have ever owned. With the guns I have had so chambered all have been good shooters. Again in my experience the 7x57 has been harder to get to shoot well than the 64. YMMV.

 

[PaulT]

My FN 7x64 was manufactured sometime back in the 50's and used for un-told hunting seasons by an un-known (to me) European gent for decades as his "stand-rifle, taking Lord only knows how many game animals with before being traded in for a custom build.
Now, some 60 years since manufacture, and still on the original barrel, it is in my hands shooting consistant, and genuine, 1/2" groups all day long.

I have never owned a 7x57 but following my experience with the 7x64mm it is unlikely I ever will.

Case capacity is a physicality that can be denied.
64mm v's 57mm's will never equal.
Does it make a difference ? Does it kill quicker, bigger animals ?, that's debatable obviously, but the capacity is not.

Nothing against the 7x57, I can see the allure.

 

[8x68]

I guess it would be a case of someone who owns a 7x64 can't really see the point of owning a 7x57 and someone who owns 7x57 can't really see the point of owning a 7x64.......

 

[sestoppelman]

I own both and quite happily!

 

[8x68]

I own both and quite happily!

That's why I had the "......." at the end of the sentence. I knew there would be someone with both. OK let's try it this way. If you own a 7x57 or 7x64 why do you need the other??? Answer because I don't have that one! That's a good answer right.....wrong! Let me 'splain it too'd d'you. I have 5 7x57's. Why? Because they is not the same (tried to explain that one to my wife....blank stare). Here is what I think is my error.....I told her that I was looking at a 7x57. Why...I DON'T KNOW! She talked about her day I opened my mouth....you get it. She knows I already have a couple, but doesn't know the actual true #. After a sentence of words that I didn't know a lady could say she she wanted to know why (I know this wasn't going to end well) but I explained that I don't have that one whilst I was backing up. I sleep on the couch now.....in the basement........of my friends house. He also owns guns. He sleeps on the other couch across the room (his other gun buddies basements had no vacancy's).
Hey but I tried to make up...I bought my wife a horse.....good huh? Turns out the horse is a lemon.

 

[Steve Steyr]

We are all guided by our experiences. When we find something that works well, we head that direction and probably put more energy and focus on verifying that direction is the correct one.
If I come up with an accurate handload for either of my 7x64's (Ruger 77RS and MS GK rifle), I will probably head that direction.
It will never, however, lessen my affection for the great 7x57.
And, in light of the velocities and accuracy I get in my Winchester M70 Lightweight 7x57, it will take a lot to persuade me the .270 Winchester, the 7x64 Brenneke, or the .280 Remington offers any advantage over the 124 year-old legendary 7x57 Mauser.

 

[PHOENIX PHIL]

We are all guided by our experiences. When we find something that works well, we head that direction and probably put more energy and focus on verifying that direction is the correct one.
If I come up with an accurate handload for either of my 7x64's (Ruger 77RS and MS GK rifle), I will probably head that direction.
It will never, however, lessen my affection for the great 7x57.
And, in light of the velocities and accuracy I get in my Winchester M70 Lightweight 7x57, it will take a lot to persuade me the .270 Winchester, the 7x64 Brenneke, or the .280 Remington offers any advantage over the 124 year-old legendary 7x57 Mauser.

If the M70 Featherweight you have is one of the ones they made a couple years ago for just one year in 7x57, then it is probably junk. Just like the one that I have, you have my sympathy. So much so that if you want to relieve yourself of this boat paddle, I would be willing to shoulder the burden and even pay you for the rifle. Just let me know.

 

[Clayton]

If the M70 Featherweight you have is one of the ones they made a couple years ago for just one year in 7x57, then it is probably junk. Just like the one that I have, you have my sympathy. So much so that if you want to relieve yourself of this boat paddle, I would be willing to shoulder the burden and even pay you for the rifle. Just let me know.

Sniff Sniff. Anyone else smell something funny about this generous offer?

 

[sestoppelman]

We are all guided by our experiences. When we find something that works well, we head that direction and probably put more energy and focus on verifying that direction is the correct one.
If I come up with an accurate handload for either of my 7x64's (Ruger 77RS and MS GK rifle), I will probably head that direction.
It will never, however, lessen my affection for the great 7x57.
And, in light of the velocities and accuracy I get in my Winchester M70 Lightweight 7x57, it will take a lot to persuade me the .270 Winchester, the 7x64 Brenneke, or the .280 Remington offers any advantage over the 124 year-old legendary 7x57 Mauser.

Its better only if you consider the ability to move any given bullet up to 200 fps faster with its attendant better ballistics and energy to be better. Otherwise no advantage. I would add that its doubtful that any animal could tell the difference if hit properly by any of those rounds, except perhaps the larger critters where it might make a real difference. Its mostly about good bullets and shot placement. BTW, I have another 7x57 on the way, so its not like I don't like the round.

 

[Steve Steyr]

Actually my M70 7x47 is a Lightweight made in the early 1990's. It weighs 6# 7oz nekkid and has a fairly nice piece of wood. It's less fancy than my M70 Fwt 7x57 was but I sold the Fwt and a nice M700 Classic 7x57 and kept this one (I also kept 4 other 7x57's).
As far as the velocity difference vs a .280 Remington or 7x64:
The 7x57 cases I have hold between 57.3 and 60.3 grains of water. The 7x64 and .280 cases hold between 67.4 and 69.7 grains of water. One brand of 7x64 holds 67.4 grains, the other two I have hold the same as R-P .280 brass, which answers that oft asked question.
Let's make it easy and say the 7x57 holds 16% less than the big guys. Velocity is gained or lost at 25% of the case capacity difference. In this case, that would be 4% at equal pressures. So, if the big guy's bullet exits the muzzle at 3000 fps, the 7x57 would be @2880 fps. If the big guys have a muzzle velocity of 2500 fps, the 7x57 would be @2400 fps. At, say, 300 yards, the trajectory difference would not be great.
Please know I am in no way knocking the 7x64 or .280 Remington or any other cartridge. They all have proven themselves time and again over the years to be effective.

 

[PHOENIX PHIL]

Dang, er uh I mean good for you...

 

[Steve Steyr]

I fired some 7x57 and 300 H&H loads over the chronograph today. Reports listed in the RELOADING section. I have been doing some chrono work lately and will enter my figures as I have time. Hope you find the numbers of interest.

 

[PHOENIX PHIL]

I fired some 7x57 and 300 H&H loads over the chronograph today. Reports listed in the RELOADING section. I have been doing some chrono work lately and will enter my figures as I have time. Hope you find the numbers of interest.

I looked for the .300H&H data but didn't find. Can you paste the link?

 

[sestoppelman]

Hair splitting of course but percentages aside,, given a good rifle with good loads, the .280/7x64 will be able to manage over 3100 fps with a 140 gr bullet, 3000 plus fps with a 150 gr bullet, just over 2900 fps with a 160 bullet, about 2800 or a tad over with a 175 gr bullet. Most of these loads will produce right around 3000 ft/lbs of energy at the muzzle. I have chronographed such loads in several rifles. The 7x57 will still be about 200 fps +- behind that staying within pressure limits for modern rifles, not the anemic loads for old rifles. The most optimistic loading manual out there in my opinion is the Nosler book, and it has some pretty fast loads listed for the 7x57 and other rounds as well. But in experience Noslers loads are verrrry optimistic for the 7x57. YMMV.

 

[Steve Steyr]

I just entered the info in RELOADING after I wrote my last comment. It is there now but the loads are very anemic starting loads.