7mm Rem Mag for big plains game

[ShortMag]

My daughter will be using a 7 mag for zebra and water buck. What are the thoughts on using 140gr barnes tsx bullets?

The 140 grain Barnes is a great choice. They are very tough and penetrate extremely well. Ignore those that suggest heavier bullets, less is more with the Barnes bullets. Weight is a poor substitute for quality, stick with quality.

 

[Red Leg]

The 140 grain Barnes is a great choice. They are very tough and penetrate extremely well. Ignore those that suggest heavier bullets, less is more with the Barnes bullets. Weight is a poor substitute for quality, stick with quality.

I personally would not ignore the wealth of African hunting experience you have access to on this site. A quality heavy bullet for caliber almost always will be much/much/much better on African game than any lighter faster quality bullet (a Vaal Rehbuck might be an exception). A high speed 140 will work 80-90% of the time. A quality 170 will work 100% of the time. On virtually all African game, it is all about penetration.

 

[billc]

I know growing up I would have never said I would use a 100 grain bullet in Africa. I have used 100 ttsx out of my 257 and have had more animals drop right in there track then with my 300 mag and 180 or 200 grain bullets. I have also yet to be able to recover one of my 100 grain so I guess penetration is not a problem.

I think with what I have seen with barnes a 140 grain would be magic in that 7mm. Speed does kill for the guys who use it in the right way. Put it in the right spot it will be dead just like a 200 grain bullet will do. Only one kind of dead after all.

 

[ShortMag]

I personally would not ignore the wealth of African hunting experience you have access to on this site. A quality heavy bullet for caliber almost always will be much/much/much better on African game than any lighter faster quality bullet (a Vaal Rehbuck might be an exception). A high speed 140 will work 80-90% of the time. A quality 170 will work 100% of the time. On virtually all African game, it is all about penetration.

There is certainly a wealth of experience here but the vast majority of it is with conventional bullets as evidenced by the poor advice given universally to go with heavier weights. If the discussion were about conventional bullets you would be correct but the question was specifically about Barnes TSX. Nothing work 100% of a time but the percentages you quoted are backwards, the lighter Barnes bullets will out penetrate the heavier conventional bullets. The TSX will hold together and penetrate, with conventional bullets you hope that they are heavy enough and have low enough impact velocity to hold together and penetrate.

 

[wesheltonj]

When at DSC my outfitter recommended a 300 WinMag. I took a 375 H&H had no problems, other then recoil. Once in Africa my outfitter said that really an 30-06 is the perfect PG gun to use except for Eland. And that he recommended the 300 WinMag, as that was what his house gun manufacturer wanted him to push for use. He now has a different house gun manufacturer for the outfitter gun and guess what it's a different caliber then the old manufacturer wanted him to push.

That said a 7mm RemMag will work without any problems, just use the heaviest bullet you can push. As a side note, if you are going to take the recoil of the 338 Win, you might was well get the 375 H&H and not be lawfully under gunned for anything that presents itself in Africa.

 

[ShortMag]

I know growing up I would have never said I would use a 100 grain bullet in Africa. I have used 100 ttsx out of my 257 and have had more animals drop right in there track then with my 300 mag and 180 or 200 grain bullets. I have also yet to be able to recover one of my 100 grain so I guess penetration is not a problem.

I think with what I have seen with barnes a 140 grain would be magic in that 7mm. Speed does kill for the guys who use it in the right way. Put it in the right spot it will be dead just like a 200 grain bullet will do. Only one kind of dead after all.

I've recovered exactly one x-bullet. It was a 110 grain TTSX from my .270 WSM into a good sized hog. The shot was quartering to hard almost completely straight on with the hogs head turned. The bullet hit just behind the hogs ear, destroyed about 12" of vertebrae, traveled through the chest and abdominal cavities, destroyed the rear leg bone and was found lodged just under the skin at the back of the ham. That bullet impacted at around 3300 fps and penetrated nearly 3' of pig including a foot of vertebrae. It is safer to say I would have had to use a much heavier bullet from a much, much larger caliber to get similar performance from conventional bullet.

 

[Red Leg]

There is certainly a wealth of experience here but the vast majority of it is with conventional bullets as evidenced by the poor advice given universally to go with heavier weights. If the discussion were about conventional bullets you would be correct but the question was specifically about Barnes TSX. Nothing work 100% of a time but the percentages you quoted are backwards, the lighter Barnes bullets will out penetrate the heavier conventional bullets. The TSX will hold together and penetrate, with conventional bullets you hope that they are heavy enough and have low enough impact velocity to hold together and penetrate.

It may come as a surprise but I haven't used anything but premium bullets for the last thirty-years or so. For instance, I am a huge fan of the TSX in it's full 300 gr guise in the .375 (though a number of PH's are not enamored with it). I have taken two buffalo and a lot of PG with the bullet. It works great - but is also THREE HUNDRED grains and launched from a .375. In my opinion, based on my experience with African game, the TSX, and the 7mm family, I would personally use a 175 gr partition over a 140 gr TSX. And I would use 170 gr Oryx over either of them. But that is just based upon my experience.

 

[wesheltonj]

+1 to the Oryx.

 

[ShortMag]

It may come as a surprise but I haven't used anything but premium bullets for the last thirty-years or so. For instance, I am a huge fan of the TSX in it's full 300 gr guise in the .375 (though a number of PH's are not enamored with it). I have taken two buffalo and a lot of PG with the bullet. It works great - but is also THREE HUNDRED grains and launched from a .375. In my opinion, based on my experience with African game, the TSX, and the 7mm family, I would personally use a 175 gr partition over a 140 gr TSX. And I would use 170 gr Oryx over either of them. But that is just based upon my experience.

The partition, even in heavy for caliber weights, consistently penetrates less than other premium bullets of the same weight and lighter Barnes bullets. The partition has also had more frequent reports of bullet failure than any other premium bullet that I'm aware of. That is not a risk I'm willing to take but everyone has to make their own, individual choice on what bullet to use. However, if someone is going to use Barnes Bullets then they need to follow the correct recommendation for bullet weight in a given caliber for those bullets and not blindly accept the rote advice to use heavier bullets. Using an overly heavy TSX, or TTSX reduces performance and is more likely to cause problems.

 

[Slider]

I took a 7mm Rem mag last year to Namibia. I used hand-loaded 140 grain Barns TTSX and took 6 Mountain Zebra(Very tough animals) and 2 Gemsbok from 50 yards to 326 yards. My PH uses a 7mm Rem Mag and was impressed.

 

[Red Leg]

I took a 7mm Rem mag last year to Namibia. I used hand-loaded 140 grain Barns TTSX and took 6 Mountain Zebra(Very tough animals) and 2 Gemsbok from 50 yards to 326 yards. My PH uses a 7mm Rem Mag and was impressed.

Just curious how you were able to take six Hartmann Zebra?

 

[Velo Dog]

Just curious how you were able to take six Hartmann Zebra?

Me as well.
I thought the limit on most species, including Hartmann zebra, for non-resident hunters in Namibia, is two.

 

[Odinsraven]

7mm rem mag have cullled a lot of Zebra Wildebeest etc with it 150 rem corelok everything goes a couple of of wildebeest needed a second pill .....but seen a wildebeest well hit with a 416 rigby and finished it with the 7mm rem mag

 

[postoak]

Seriously, there is a limit of two on game species in Namibia? What about cull hunts?

 

[mdwest]

In my opinion, based on my experience with African game, the TSX, and the 7mm family, I would personally use a 175 gr partition over a 140 gr TSX. And I would use 170 gr Oryx over either of them.

Same recommendation for 7x57?

Im finishing a custom 7x57 build within the next couple of weeks and will be looking for a starting point for a load.. Its got a 1:9.5" twist barrel on it, so I am thinking it should stabilize long/heavy bullets just fine at 7x57 velocities..

I've always shot 150gr (variety of ammo) in my 7mm RM and 7mm WSM with success.. but have never used either of them on anything outside of North America..

 

[Red Leg]

Same recommendation for 7x57?

Im finishing a custom 7x57 build within the next couple of weeks and will be looking for a starting point for a load.. Its got a 1:9.5" twist barrel on it, so I am thinking it should stabilize long/heavy bullets just fine at 7x57 velocities..

I've always shot 150gr (variety of ammo) in my 7mm RM and 7mm WSM with success.. but have never used either of them on anything outside of North America..

My favorite two 7mm loads in my favorite 7x57 (a .275 Rigby) are the 156 gr and 170 gr Oryx. This is a wonderful bullet which drives deeply and holds together over a broad range of velocities. Lance Hendershot loads these for me and each produces sub-MOA groups in this rifle (and only an inch or so vertical separation). Either would be effective on PG. I tend to think of the 156 as a North American/ Europe load and the 170 Oryx would be my concept of an ideal 7mm PG bullet.

 

[Red Leg]

Seriously, there is a limit of two on game species in Namibia? What about cull hunts?

It would be rare to have a cull hunt of a valuable (read expensive) CITES Appendix 2 listed animal such as the Hartman. A game farm with excess Hartman's would typically trap and sell them.

Cull hunts typically sidestep the license/permit issue by not considering the animals culled as "trophy" animals.

 

[mdwest]

My favorite two 7mm loads in my favorite 7x57 (a .275 Rigby) are the 156 gr and 170 gr Oryx. This is a wonderful bullet which drives deeply and holds together over a broad range of velocities. Lance Hendershot loads these for me and each produces sub-MOA groups in this rifle (and only an inch or so vertical separation). Either would be effective on PG. I tend to think of the 156 as a North American/ Europe load and the 170 Oryx would be my concept of an ideal 7mm PG bullet.

Thanks!

it looks like you can special order the 170 Oryx from midway.. I’ll give them a try and see how they shoot in the new rifle..

 

[Velo Dog]

It would be rare to have a cull hunt of a valuable (read expensive) CITES Appendix 2 listed animal such as the Hartman. A game farm with excess Hartman's would typically trap and sell them.

Cull hunts typically sidestep the license/permit issue by not considering the animals culled as "trophy" animals.

+1

 

[Velo Dog]

Seriously, there is a limit of two on game species in Namibia? What about cull hunts?

Namibia's published hunting regulations say two.
And I'm with Red Leg in that, due to their high value and tendency to not be especially over-populated if found at all in prime crop growing regions, it seems strange that Hartmann zebra would need culling.
They don't even tend to congregate in especially large herds, (a dozen or so is typically max) when found in their very favorite habitat - dry, rocky, steep hills.