7mm 08 for Eland

[Nosler guy]

First, I really couldn't care less what you think I am. I happen to think you a reckless individual, advocating to exceed the established SAAMI pressure specifications for a given round, but you do what you want. It want be my rifle that that flies apart in different directions . Please tell all of us non educated laymen how the 7x57 is superior. The all American need for speed? I don't recall anyone advocating for speed. I sure didn't. What I did say is the 7mm-08 will give higher velocity.

I would wager that over 1/2 the handloaders on this site use loads that exceed established SAAMI pressure specs in all kinds of calibres. An experienced loader can read the signs, and make adjustments long before his rifle "flies apart in different directions " Established SAAMI pressures for some of the older rounds are ridiculously conservative and low (these would include ,257 Roberts - 7X57 - 8mm Mauser - and a number of other older calibres) You can't even get close to the full potential of these calibres if you stick to established SAAMI pressures.

In another post you mentioned a concern with brass - most modern brass for these older calibres is every bit as good and capable of handling pressure, on par with the brass put out for modern calibres - all you have to do is cut a few / crosssection them and compare them, and if you are still concerned cut / cross section a few after a couple of firings and you will be able to get a valid comparison. Quality modern 7X57 brass is perfectly capable of handling every bit as much pressure as 7mm-08 brass. Chances are you will have sticking / stuck cases and pushed out primers long before your brass lets you down.

 

[Firebird]

It boggles the mind how a guy can ask a simple question and end up with dozens of opinions about brass thickness, bullet performance, saami specs, popular calibers from all sides of the pond, shot placement and taxidermy tips. Funnier still is that guys are getting pissed and arguing about it. Thank goodness you didn't ask if the sex is better with a blonde, brunette or redhead!
I bought a rem. 7mm-08 for my wife and teenage daughters. I like it so much I have ended up shooting multiple deer and elk with it. I've personally witnessed that rifle cleanly harvest whitetail and mule deer, elk, antelope and a guy I loaned it to killed his shiras moose. I favor the speer 145 grand slam, but it shoots 150 grain scirocco 2 very well and my favorite bullet through it is nosler ABLR in 150 gr. R-P or Norma brass for what its worth. -Worth noting is that just because your reloading book says your 24 inch barrel will shoot bullet x at ? speed of light with powder x, does not mean your rifle can or will do it accurately and heaven forbid you got one of the new factory 22 inch barrels or a custom 26 from Hart! Point is there are hundreds of variables to consider but you can surely be successful with your favorite, that's why it is your favorite. Buddy of mine also shoots 7mm-08, totally different rifle than mine but he could add a long shot on a trophy mule deer and two b and c caribou bulls to the list. And I don't even like the bullet he used to do it. (Hahahha!)
So with all my bias, since that's all it really is, I will say simply "no" don't shoot your eland with it. You have a better caliber at your disposal from your buddy and probably even a better one than that if you are willing to rent one from your ph. No body wants to shoot their animal with someone else's gun-guns are our babies, I get it and I agree. But to prevent suffering, ease of recovery and your own time and money-don't use your 7mm-08. Respectfully speaking...
I did just read Geoff Broom's childhood recollection of harvesting an old kudu bull with a .22 lr. One shot, dropped in its tracks! No matter how lethal, he still got his ass whooped by his dad and never became a proponent of .22 long rifles for kudu, it worked but just wasn't the best tool for the job.

That said, can anybody lend some advice for potty training my three year old son!!!

 

[gatekeeper]

You don't seem to understand reality. You just stated a 7x57 has a 175gr@2300. The 7mm-08 with the same bullet is STILL FASTER

ALiiant Powder website: 175gr Speer Grand Slam 44gr RL19 @ 2574 that's almost 300fps faster
175gr Speer SP 47gr RL19@ 2628 that's OVER 300fps faster

Hodgdon website: 175gr Nosler Partition 46gr IMR 4350 @ 2556, that's 256fps faster
44gr H100V @2518, that's 218fps faster

Sierra Manual: 175gr Gameking BT 45.1gr RL19@ 2600fps, that's 300fps faster

These are industry professionals' data, not my own trumped up or dreamed up data. My word man, you can pick and love the 7x57, and that is great, but it doesn't change reality. It doesn't matter about the cartridges "Impeccable" record. It's not as fast as a 7mm-08. Please show me data, from a legitimate source (not your back yard research lab) that states different. You won't, because you can't. I just knew this horse was gona take a severe beating... I knew it.

 

[gatekeeper]

Nosler Guy, thank you for the insight on the brass question. I've never cross cut any, and just wasn't sure about that. I do understand that in individual rifles, perhaps a loader can exceed the pressure standards by a small margin and still be safe, I get that. But if we are going to make a comparison, it just doesn't seem to be a good idea to factor that in, as it is such a huge variable, and obviously the safety of doing so becomes a real concern.

 

[gatekeeper]

With that being the case, I looked up the Lovex brand powder, as I truly have never heard of them, but they are a legitimate manufacturer. I do concede sir.

 

[7x57Joe]

A thousand pardons Sir! I was looking a 7x64 data instead of 7x57. 7x57 is just shy of 2500 fps. Now, I'll delete my previous post and crawl back under my rock.

 

[gatekeeper]

HAHA, a thousand pardons granted to you as well sir. Good times!!! It's all in good fun

 

[flat8]

That said, can anybody lend some advice for potty training my three year old son!!!

I can help there. Strip him naked, fill him with water, and DON'T leave the bathroom. Eventually, he's going to have to go and when that happens, the toilet is right there. Be prepared to spend the day in that bathroom. Bring a book, games, whatever. But after a day - two days max - you'll be done. It worked on my guy at about 26 months.

And, 7-08 would probably be OK for Eland, but why tempt fate??

 

[1dirthawker]

As title suggests, thoughts and opinions please. I am taking 30-06 but my mate is taking 7mms 08.
Markcz

mark,
i have never shot an eland, but i would think that a heavier gun would be appropriate for a beast weighing up to a ton.

if you have a perfect setup, then it would be marginally adequate. but if the angle is tough, a bit far, etc, a bigger bullet placed well will give you more grace. would be a shame to have to pass on a shot or lose an animal that would be easily done with a more appropriate caliber. heck, cape buffalo, would you want to shoot one with a 7/08? why not? they are not as large as some eland (so I've been told)

i have shot or seen shot more than 50 moose. they are not as large as an eland. a 7/08 would be on the light side for them. could one kill a moose with one? of course. would it be the best choice, i think most would agree, probably not.

all that said, i think koromojo bell said "a 100 grains place well is better than 1,000 placed poorly".

enjoy your hunt, i am a bit jealous of your opportunity. good luck!

 

[JakeH]

I fully believe that the 7mm-08 is capable of killing an eland, but it wouldn’t be my first choice. If you’re going on the trip of a lifetime, it’s worth it to upgrade to something with some more power. Even with a .30-06, you’d have much more gun and I’d feel much better shooting a one-ton animal with one.

What do I know though? I’ve only ever shot deer in North Carolina.

 

[ChrisG]

First, I really couldn't care less what you think I am. I happen to think you a reckless individual, advocating to exceed the established SAAMI pressure specifications for a given round, but you do what you want. It want be my rifle that that flies apart in different directions . Please tell all of us non educated laymen how the 7x57 is superior. The all American need for speed? I don't recall anyone advocating for speed. I sure didn't. What I did say is the 7mm-08 will give higher velocity.

You realize he's a professional hunter right? I am sure he has killed enough Eland to know what works and what doesn't

 

[Rocked and Loaded]

Nosler Guy, thank you for the insight on the brass question. I've never cross cut any, and just wasn't sure about that. I do understand that in individual rifles, perhaps a loader can exceed the pressure standards by a small margin and still be safe, I get that. But if we are going to make a comparison, it just doesn't seem to be a good idea to factor that in, as it is such a huge variable, and obviously the safety of doing so becomes a real concern.

I would have thought that a strong modern action like a ruger 77 hawkeye which easily withstands magnum cartridges like 300wm, 7mm mag, and 375 ruger wouldn't have much trouble safely eating 7x57s loaded to a more modern velocity.

Objectively, it seems that the greater case capacity of the 7x57 should allow it to exceed 7mm-08 velocities at any bullet weight (7mm-08 Remington (R-P): 52.2, grains7x57 Mauser (W-W): 55.6 grains :taken from chuckhawks).

The SAAMI pressure of 51,000 PSI for the 7x57 vs the 61,000 PSI for 7mm-08 seems excessively conservative for modern rifles. I've heard (anecdotally) of guys loading 7x57 to 7mm mag velocities without rifles blowing apart (not that it's a good idea anyway).

I'm not arguing that powder, bullet, and cartridge manufacturers aren't publishing data that says the 7mm-08 loads are always faster. It's just that something seems fishy about a cartridge with a greater capacity not being able to even match another with the same bullets.

I also question the safety concerns over marginally over-pressure loads in strong modern actions. I remember a guy testing a Swedish Mauser (a design considered weaker than the M98) by progressively increasing charges until the rifle failed. If I recall correctly, it took an extremely over loaded cartridge (much more than any handloader would reasonably develop) to actually damage the receiver to the point it could not longer be used, and even then it didn't explode and a potential user would probably not have been injured. And this was with an action considered inferior to the M98.

I am by no means an expert. I'm just curious if there is a rational explanation for the 7mm-08 being faster than the 7x57 in spite of a lower case capacity. Otherwise I'd assume it was just a liability thing related to weak M93s.

 

[Rocked and Loaded]

Ah here is another blurb from Chuck Hawks:

"Instead of SAAMI, the Europeans employ C.I.P., the Permanent International Commission for Firearms Testing. A far more independent organization, the C.I.P. was founded in 1914 and does not answer to corporate American or European gunmakers. According to official C.I.P. guidelines, the 7×57mm case can handle up to 390 MPa (56,564 psi) piezo pressure. In C.I.P. regulated countries, every rifle/cartridge combination has to be proofed at 125% of this maximum C.I.P. pressure to certify for sale to consumers."

And 125% of the 56,564 would be 70704 PSI. So I would imagine that loading any modern rifle in 7x57 to slightly exceed 7mm-08 standard pressure (61k PSI) should be perfectly safe.

Not a legal opinion but I certainly wouldn't be too skittish about firing a modestly hotter 7x57 handload out of my Ruger 275 rigby.

 

[MarkCZ]

Hello chaps, just back from a most wonderful hunting trip to Namibia. My friend took his 7mm-08 loaded with 160 grain Speer deep curl bullets. long story cut short he took an Eland cow at 60 metres shot in the heart, she staggered 40 yards and fell dead.
Markcz

 

[Graham Hunter]

As evidenced by all the posts on this subject and many others like it we all keep beating the dead horse until it is flat.
Number 1. Be the most accurate shooter you can possibly be. Practice practice practice and more practice from all positions but especially from the sticks.
Number 2. Use a quality bullet. And that's another dead flat horse!!
Number 3. Any caliber from 7mm up will work on PG out to 200 yds.
Number 4. Go back and practice some more.

 

[Kenneth McMillan]

I'm a 7mm-08 fan but even I wouldn't dream of using it on eland. I would consider 300WSM at the lower end of my preferences and .416 Ruger at the upper end of my preferences. Ideally .358 Norma Magnum or .375 Ruger would be my choice topped with a zeiss scope.

 

[CBH Australia]

That is a ridiculous assertion. No animal on the planet could tell the difference between the two cartridges except those hit with a 170/175 gr bullet from a 7x57/.275. Those heavy for caliber rounds do not work nearly as well in the 'o8 case. Just saying.

That said - and though I love my .275 - were I paying the trophy fee for an eland, I would hope that I had my .338 or .375 in hand.

Oh Joe, you are an advocate for the .275 H&H. aka 7x57 , Both Classic s. I am a fan of my 7mm-08 , I read they are Ballistic Twin's. But that led me to the 280ai after many discussions here.
Anyway, bigger is better but shot placement counts. So does experience so I'm not arguing cause I too have a .375 I just need to get out and hunt more.

 

[IvW]

First, I really couldn't care less what you think I am. I happen to think you a reckless individual, advocating to exceed the established SAAMI pressure specifications for a given round, but you do what you want. It want be my rifle that that flies apart in different directions . Please tell all of us non educated laymen how the 7x57 is superior. The all American need for speed? I don't recall anyone advocating for speed. I sure didn't. What I did say is the 7mm-08 will give higher velocity.

BS....

 

[MarkCZ]

I'm a 7mm-08 fan but even I wouldn't dream of using it on eland. I would consider 300WSM at the lower end of my preferences and .416 Ruger at the upper end of my preferences. Ideally .358 Norma Magnum or .375 Ruger would be my choice topped with a zeiss scope.

I can only relate to my own experiences so here goes. I have only hunted one Eland and seen one other Eland hunted. My Eland fell to a 180 grn Partition from a 30-06 and my friends fell to a 160 grn (not sure of make) from a 7-08. his animal dropped after 10 yrds, mine a bit further so I would say that if you are accurate with a 7-08 with the right bullet go ahead. IMHO you do not need cannons to drop these animals.
Markcz

 

[Kenneth McMillan]

I can only relate to my own experiences so here goes. I have only hunted one Eland and seen one other Eland hunted. My Eland fell to a 180 grn Partition from a 30-06 and my friends fell to a 160 grn (not sure of make) from a 7-08. his animal dropped after 10 yrds, mine a bit further so I would say that if you are accurate with a 7-08 with the right bullet go ahead. IMHO you do not need cannons to drop these animals.
Markcz

Yes with the right bullet but the hunter should listen to the PH recommendations, if they say go bigger you go bigger, if they say go for it, go for it.