6.5x55 - 140 Grain Reload Velocity?

[shark_za]

I doubt that 2900fps with a 140gr bullet is feasible, back in the day there was a lot of talk about this among the collector crowd who also shot a little.
We used to shoot Portuguese and Swedish Mausers; fell in love with the caliber and bought a Tikka M695.
Every time I had the Chrono on the range nobody had loaded up to this level that week and no proof was ever recorded.

Results from my last session where I was working up loads for the 156gr Orxy. I shot a lot this day, worked the loads and also shot a lot of my previous loads to free up some brass.
My reloads usually use Winchester Brass and CCI200 primers.

140gr with a bullet I'm not sure of the make; they are silver with a yellow plastic nose cap.
Stout load of S365
Number if Shots : 16
Average of All Shots : 2722ft/s
Extreme Spread : 66ft/s
Standard Deviation : 16ft/s

My current standard hunting load is a 140gr Rhino loaded with S365
Number of Shots : 10
Average of All Shots : 2597 ft/s
Extreme Spread : 55ft/s
Standard Deviation : 18ft/s

Winchester 140gr Factory (shocking)
Number of Shots : 14
Average of All Shots : 2353 ft/s
Extreme Spread : 127ft/s
Standard Deviation : 37ft/s

Sellier and Bellot 131gr Factory - I believe they load the 140gr to the same velocity according to their website.
Number of Shots : 10
Average of All Shots : 2638 ft/s
Extreme Spread : 89ft/s
Standard Deviation : 29ft/s

I need to load up the ladder a little, the last I got with the 156gr Oryx with an over Max amount of MRP was (I load these 78mm OAL)
I found some accuracy but will see if I can find the same around 2550ft/s after lockdown.
Number of Shots : 4 (1 didn't register)
Average of All Shots : 2488 ft/s
Extreme Spread : 18ft/s
Standard Deviation : 7ft/s

Plans are to get the Oryx over 2500ft/s and then work a load for the ELD-X over 2700ft/s.
I can then sight in for bushveld or karoo depending on the trip location. If I had to go hunt tomorrow without finishing this work, I would happily take the S&B to the plains and then shoot the Oryx load as it is in the bush.
I will load my 6.5x55 to the same or slightly over any bullet fired from a 6.5CM.

 

[Kev]

I doubt that 2900fps with a 140gr bullet is feasible, back in the day there was a lot of talk about this among the collector crowd who also shot a little.
We used to shoot Portuguese and Swedish Mausers; fell in love with the caliber and bought a Tikka M695.
Every time I had the Chrono on the range nobody had loaded up to this level that week and no proof was ever recorded.

Results from my last session where I was working up loads for the 156gr Orxy. I shot a lot this day, worked the loads and also shot a lot of my previous loads to free up some brass.
My reloads usually use Winchester Brass and CCI200 primers.

140gr with a bullet I'm not sure of the make; they are silver with a yellow plastic nose cap.
Stout load of S365
Number if Shots : 16
Average of All Shots : 2722ft/s
Extreme Spread : 66ft/s
Standard Deviation : 16ft/s

My current standard hunting load is a 140gr Rhino loaded with S365
Number of Shots : 10
Average of All Shots : 2597 ft/s
Extreme Spread : 55ft/s
Standard Deviation : 18ft/s

Winchester 140gr Factory (shocking)
Number of Shots : 14
Average of All Shots : 2353 ft/s
Extreme Spread : 127ft/s
Standard Deviation : 37ft/s

Sellier and Bellot 131gr Factory - I believe they load the 140gr to the same velocity according to their website.
Number of Shots : 10
Average of All Shots : 2638 ft/s
Extreme Spread : 89ft/s
Standard Deviation : 29ft/s

I need to load up the ladder a little, the last I got with the 156gr Oryx with an over Max amount of MRP was (I load these 78mm OAL)
I found some accuracy but will see if I can find the same around 2550ft/s after lockdown.
Number of Shots : 4 (1 didn't register)
Average of All Shots : 2488 ft/s
Extreme Spread : 18ft/s
Standard Deviation : 7ft/s

Plans are to get the Oryx over 2500ft/s and then work a load for the ELD-X over 2700ft/s.
I can then sight in for bushveld or karoo depending on the trip location. If I had to go hunt tomorrow without finishing this work, I would happily take the S&B to the plains and then shoot the Oryx load as it is in the bush.
I will load my 6.5x55 to the same or slightly over any bullet fired from a 6.5CM.

Good info Shark.
I would have to say that all of my loads for the 6.5 x 55 exceed the listed loads for the Creedmore. But no doubt there are Creedmore hand-loaders who do the same thing I do and I have no idea just how much velocity they are achieving with accuracy.
Working up the ladder is the trick. I have found that the first sign I get of what might be called over pressure loading is the slight shiny mark from the ejector/extractor. But nothing that concerns me such as tight bolt or flat primers.
When I first started reloading for it I was always super conservative, but after so many years of testing and working up loads the fear of looking for the velocities that made the projectiles work dissipated. Working up to the point where the groups begin to open out then settling on the load that gave the best group for the highest velocity has filled a lot of notebooks and worn out a lot of barrels. There are just too many projectiles and powders to try.
I have been considering buying a couple of cameras to set up and make a video record. But then it means carting more gear to the range and I usually forget half the stuff I mean to take anyway. After lock down is finished I want to do some longer range work, that's if I can get my hands on some Berger 130gn projectiles.

 

[shark_za]

My hottest load is with the 125gr Partition that clocks over 2900ft/s ; I do see a little of that shiny bolt mark on the cases with this one.
Surprisingly this was the load that gave me my half moon club entrance. LOL.

 

[Kev]

My hottest load is with the 125gr Partition that clocks over 2900ft/s ; I do see a little of that shiny bolt mark on the cases with this one.
Surprisingly this was the load that gave me my half moon club entrance. LOL.

LOL! The reason I stopped using my ATN X-Sight on the 6.5 x 55 was that you had to have your eye right up into the eyepiece. Give the 123gn Hornady SST a try. Albeit intended for use in the 6.5 Grendel at around 2,600fps it is a really good killer when driven to 2,900 and flat shooting. It is my "go to" when I can't source the 130gn Berger. Having been a boxer and Karate freak for most of my younger life, I have that much scar tissue over my eyes it is like Rhino hide. Thankfully the eye relief of my Burris El3 is just right.

 

[ChrisG]

My hottest load is with the 125gr Partition that clocks over 2900ft/s ; I do see a little of that shiny bolt mark on the cases with this one.
Surprisingly this was the load that gave me my half moon club entrance. LOL.

That is surprising considering the incredibly mild recoil of the 6.5 (unless your rifle is like 2 kg) I never considered I could get smacked in the eyebrow with mine, but I mount all my scopes far enough forward that I have to crane my neck a little to get a clear sight picture. I got hit once real good from my old .416 and after that I started moving all my scopes forward a bit and haven't had that problem since.

 

[shark_za]

As an exercise I fed the data into the Gordons Reloading Tool.
Using a 140gr bullet and real corrections from my rifle and cases.

You can get 2900fps if you push 61000psi in the 6.5x55 using MRP or N560. Given that the spec set by CIP is 55000psi this is highly suspect and should not be done. This is also 100% case fill.
I ran the numbers for my 125gr partition/S365 load and they estimate 60000 psi. Ooops.

6.5 Creedmoor is specified to 62000psi but their cases have been designed to handle this better than the 6.5x55 ones.
Can it be done? - yes.
Should it be done?

 

[samu]

60 Euro per pound! Crikey, that would take a lot of the enjoyment out of a day at the range. Lapua brass is certainly top shelf. The initial cost is easily outweighed by the longevity and consistency of the brass. While N560 might be great for any bullet weight in your particular rifle that might not be the case in ALL rifles. The only way to ascertain what is the optimum in your rifle is to go through the routine of testing, and that encompasses a lot of variables. This also applies to the published data in reloading manuals. They choose to look at the weakest link in the chain and provide the data for that, in some cases the published data is more of a pipe dream than reality.

I'll redact my statement considering N560 for the x55. I simply don't have enough experience to talk about any of this. Yes the N560 allows to push bullets very fast but it comes with cost of incredible amounts of fouling with bullets lighter than 10 grams. I'm using suppressor which doesn't help the situation.

 

[Pepe Alvarez]

Hi folks,
This is the firs time I write about the 6,5x55 but I would like share my little experience.

I am using this caliber with SST 140 and Nosler Partition 140 gr and I fount that they run very well with RS 60 (Reload Swiss 60) powder in my B14 Bergara with 24" barrel.

With 44 gr it goes to 2.808 fps and less than 1" at 100m.

 

[Pepe Alvarez]

Hi folks,
This is the firs time I write about the 6,5x55 but I would like share my little experience.

I am using this caliber with SST 140 and Nosler Partition 140 gr and I fount that they run very well with RS 60 (Reload Swiss 60) powder in my B14 Bergara with 24" barrel.

With 44 gr it goes to 2.808 fps and less than 1" at 100m.

I send you photos with the trials and one more with the reticle of my Zeiss Diatal 8x56 that does not help to aim but it is the best at night.

Best regards,

 

[Steen S. Blicher]

Hi folks

Here are my experience with the 6,5x55 SE

900 m/s ~ 2950 fps can be done with a 140 gr bullet in 6,5x55 SE
11-12 years ago I owned, an old M98 with a 28" Otterup heavy barrel build for use in the Danish shooting union, this rifle was able to shot 2950 fps with a 140 gr. NP bullet in sub moa groups.

Loads was worked up in a ladder and made with Norma brass and Norma MRP powder.

Today I´m shooting a Sako 75 also in 6,5x55 SE with a 22,5" barrel, two of my favorite loads are with

143 gr. ELD-X at 850m/s ~ 2760 fps
127 gr. Barnes LRX at 900m/s ~ 2950 fps

Both loads are made with Norma Brass and MRP powder

 

[Frederik]

23" Barrel
Norma Brass
140 gr S&B
getting me 2740fps
N560 - 49gr

Going to test accuracy and bullet seating depth today at 200meter if wind permits.

 

[leslie hetrick]

N-560 will get you very close to thoses speeds, my cz 550 loves N-560 and 120 gr noslers. start low and work up, you rifle will tell you when to stop.

 

[machinistbutler]

Hi folks

Here are my experience with the 6,5x55 SE

900 m/s ~ 2950 fps can be done with a 140 gr bullet in 6,5x55 SE
11-12 years ago I owned, an old M98 with a 28" Otterup heavy barrel build for use in the Danish shooting union, this rifle was able to shot 2950 fps with a 140 gr. NP bullet in sub moa groups.

Loads was worked up in a ladder and made with Norma brass and Norma MRP powder.

Today I´m shooting a Sako 75 also in 6,5x55 SE with a 22,5" barrel, two of my favorite loads are with

143 gr. ELD-X at 850m/s ~ 2760 fps
127 gr. Barnes LRX at 900m/s ~ 2950 fps

Both loads are made with Norma Brass and MRP powder

I have a few of the Schultz & Larsen M70,m77 Danish target rifles built on the Mauser 98, 28 inch barrels. Very nice shooting rifles.

I have a couple barrels for my SSG in 6.5x55 , one by Sauer and Benchmark made me another. The Sauer shoots great, still haven't tried the Benchmark but will soon.

I mostly have ran 4831, with lapua brass and scenars. If I remember around 2700 with nice loads not near max .

Kind of nice shooting the 6.5 after a shoulder workout with the 375,416, 458 rifles.

 

[Bob Nelson 35Whelen]

2600-2650 seems to be a popular sweet spot for velocity on the handload front.

I can tell you that the Europeans have hotter loads but that's because they have another cartridge called 6.5x55 SE. It's for modern actions and usually on lapuas, rws and Norma brass. Look at Norma and Vihta Vuori powders in their load manuals and you'll find the key to the speed you want. SE means hot loads for modern actions only, Aka +P loads.

SAAMI does not support what you are trying to do, go to the Europeans.

@rookhawk
The SE in 6.6x55 just means it's the Swedish Mauser. It is the same as the 6.5x55 and not a plus P load. It can used in the Swedish Mauser as the Swedes would not be stupid enough to over load and cause damage to rifles.
The U.S. has always under loaded old cartridges like the 7x57 and the Swede for fear of litigation on MISUSE of cartridges in old actions like the 93 Mauser. The difference between the 98 mausers and the 96 mausers is the 96 doesn't have the 3rd safety lug, but how many turn bolt repeaters do now.
The European manuals may list hotter loads so just work up safely as per normal. Reloader 17 seems to be a good powder according to the nosler site.
Bob

 

[rookhawk]

@rookhawk
The SE in 6.6x55 just means it's the Swedish Mauser. It is the same as the 6.5x55 and not a plus P load. It can used in the Swedish Mauser as the Swedes would not be stupid enough to over load and cause damage to rifles.
The U.S. has always under loaded old cartridges like the 7x57 and the Swede for fear of litigation on MISUSE of cartridges in old actions like the 93 Mauser. The difference between the 98 mausers and the 96 mausers is the 96 doesn't have the 3rd safety lug, but how many turn bolt repeaters do now.
The European manuals may list hotter loads so just work up safely as per normal. Reloader 17 seems to be a good powder according to the nosler site.
Bob

Usually, there is two sets of load data for 6.5x55.

One denoted 6.5x55, the other 6.5x55 SE. The SE loads will usually have an asterisk stating "pressures not suitable for vintage rifles, particularly Krag-Jorgenson and other rifles".

 

[Bob Nelson 35Whelen]

I don't know much about speed as it's never been in my concerns, I just know you can get there. I know that 6.5s typically are most accurate in 98% to 102% powder fill to case capacity. (Moderately compressed loads)

Norma, Lapua are your best manuals for info as they are more aggressive on what a modern gun can shoot.

The 140 and 160 are such amazing projectiles with their inherent high BCs they really shoot great until pushed so far that they distabalize. In 6.5x284 they are more accurate at 50fps less than top speed. I suspect it is the same for 6.5x55 SE, albeit at a slower overall velocity.

Nothing hit with a 140gr 6.5 properly gets up and runs away. Even at 300 yards where there isn't that much foot pounds left, it still works.

@rookhawk
I am confused how can a projectile destabilize when pushed faster. The fast a bullet travels in a barrel the faster v the gyrosopic rotations.
Does that mean a 100 grain bullet in the 6.5 is not going to stabilize ate faster velocity.
There's a phenomenon with some 6.5s that some of the heavier projectiles shoot better at 200 yards than 100 as the bullet has stabilized by then. Target shooter refer to this as the bullet going to sleep and settling down.
Bob

 

[Bob Nelson 35Whelen]

Nathan Foster's writings consist of five books and his Knowledge Base. You can get to his website by clicking the following link http://www.ballisticstudies.com/ The only thing you can see online is the Knowledge Base and a synopsis of what is in each of his books. I was in love with the 1896 Swedish Mauser's accuracy for many years before I ever heard about Nathan Foster. After I read his Knowledge Base on the 6.5 x 55 Swedish Mauser I realized that I had a "tiger by the tail" all I had to do was load it up properly

@Shootist43
Art it's the same with a lot of the older rounds like the 7x57, 30/06, 280 rem and our beloved 35 Whelen are all better when loaded correctly. When loaded correctly they all come into a world of their own that still have nonbelievers shaking their head in wonderment.
Bob

 

[rookhawk]

@rookhawk
I am confused how can a projectile destabilize when pushed faster. The fast a bullet travels in a barrel the faster v the gyrosopic rotations.
Does that mean a 100 grain bullet in the 6.5 is not going to stabilize ate faster velocity.
There's a phenomenon with some 6.5s that some of the heavier projectiles shoot better at 200 yards than 100 as the bullet has stabilized by then. Target shooter refer to this as the bullet going to sleep and settling down.
Bob

Hi Bob,

I'm speaking of centrifugal forces potential causing jacket separation in flight. This was a problem with some high-speed weatherby loads, for example. Also, this was a situation with nosler partitions pushed at higher speeds.

This may be a lesser issue with monometal barnes or bonded core softs of the newest sorts.

 

[Bob Nelson 35Whelen]

Usually, there is two sets of load data for 6.5x55.

One denoted 6.5x55, the other 6.5x55 SE. The SE loads will usually have an asterisk stating "pressures not suitable for vintage rifles, particularly Krag-Jorgenson and other rifles".

@rookhawk.
I'm not saying your wrong but none of my manuals list 2 different loading nor does Wayne blackells load from a disc. Just differ manual I thinks.
Bob

 

[Bob Nelson 35Whelen]

Hi Bob,

I'm speaking of centrifugal forces potential causing jacket separation in flight. This was a problem with some high-speed weatherby loads, for example. Also, this was a situation with nosler partitions pushed at higher speeds.

This may be a lesser issue with monometal barnes or bonded core softs of the newest sorts.

@ Rookhawk
I had the same problems in my 22/250 during some bullets. The would leave a target looking like it had been sprinkled with pepper at 50 yards. The jackets just got torn to shreds and not long after they left the barrel the just disintegrate.
Bob