500 schuler magazine

[Bert Reynolds]

My pleasure, I want to see the final product. That includes your 404 Jeffery I have one of those as well. I am planning to have a 9.3x62 built on a commercial 98 action I have currently cambered in 8x57. It is some small German Guild Gun, but I forget the maker. I am always interested in other gun projects. Especially big bores.

 

[Bert Reynolds]

My mate proudly holding my 450/400. I still haven’t been home to shoot this. I imported it from the US and it turned up at the start of Covid.

 

[John A Flaws]

That is a very nice looking custom stocked Ruger No 1 in a great cartridge. You can get a lot of practice with that rifle on wild pigs.

 

[John Telford]

Interesting factory engraving on that Schuler! What else do you have hiding in your gunroom Mr Flaws sir?

 

[John A Flaws]

I have a couple of Westley Richards bolt actions. One in 318 and the other 425. I have an Army Navy Co-op 404 Jeffery and 303 Lee Speed. I have a Rigby 275 and a Henry Atkin 256 on a 1900 MS action. I also have a Holland and Holland 375 Magnum.

 

[Bert Reynolds]

That is a very nice looking custom stocked Ruger No 1 in a great cartridge. You can get a lot of practice with that rifle on wild pigs.

It was a Craig Boddington rifle. I bought it off this forum and sent it to RJ Renner to be Englished. There’s a left hand CZ 416 rigby on here I’m tempted to do the same to. But having a 404 and 500 Jeffery on the way makes it hard to pull the trigger.

 

[Bert Reynolds]

I have a couple of Westley Richards bolt actions. One in 318 and the other 425. I have an Army Navy Co-op 404 Jeffery and 303 Lee Speed. I have a Rigby 275 and a Henry Atkin 256 on a 1900 MS action. I also have a Holland and Holland 375 Magnum.

Classic collection. Mauser, lee and Mannlicher!

 

[John A Flaws]

It can be easy to to take on to many projects at one time. I know you are building a 404 so I thought I would post a couple pictures of my Army Navy Co-Op Society 404.

 

[John Telford]

Is that the original stock on the A&N 404 John?

 

[John A Flaws]

Yes the stock on this rifle is original. I have three other classic rifles that have been restocked but the 404 was not one of them. I had the rifle completely restored by Turnbull Restoration Company. The recoil pad is only non original item.

 

[Bert Reynolds]

It can be easy to to take on to many projects at one time. I know you are building a 404 so I thought I would post a couple pictures of my Army Navy Co-Op Society 404.

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Very nice. If I wasn’t left handed I would be looking for something like this instead of building. Looks like minimal work was needed to the action to fit the 404.

 

[Bert Reynolds]

Yes the stock on this rifle is original. I have three other classic rifles that have been restocked but the 404 was not one of them. I had the rifle completely restored by Turnbull Restoration Company. The recoil pad is only non original item.

What’s the recoil like between the 500 and 404?

 

[John A Flaws]

The 500 firing once is not to bad. Especially standing up. It is a shove and not a sharp jab. But when I shoot it several times at the range I have had some minor consequences. Over time I find that my right middle finger above the knuckle bangs off the rear of the trigger guard and becomes sore. Also if I am shooting off the bench I notice that I can develop a mild headache. I generally limit myself to around 20 rounds at the range.

I have shot three different 404s in my life but my little 404 is light. (Just above 7 pounds) So it kicks a little more than the others I have fired but it is not bad. I find a 8 pound 404 recoil just a bit more than a 375 H& H. I do not not load my 404 rounds above the original performance. I keep the muzzle velocity to around 2100 to 2150 FPS.

I have shot wild pigs with both rifles and shooting in the field have never noticed recoil.

I believe the most unpleasant rifle I have ever shot was a Winchester 1886 45-70 carbine with a crescent steel butt plate. Because of the design I remember the recoil to have been displeasing.

 

[Bert Reynolds]

The 500 firing once is not to bad. Especially standing up. It is a shove and not a sharp jab. But when I shoot it several times at the range I have had some minor consequences. Over time I find that my right middle finger above the knuckle bangs off the rear of the trigger guard and becomes sore. Also if I am shooting off the bench I notice that I can develop a mild headache. I generally limit myself to around 20 rounds at the range.

I have shot three different 404s in my life but my little 404 is light. (Just above 7 pounds) So it kicks a little more than the others I have fired but it is not bad. I find a 8 pound 404 recoil just a bit more than a 375 H& H. I do not not load my 404 rounds above the original performance. I keep the muzzle velocity to around 2100 to 2150 FPS.

I have shot wild pigs with both rifles and shooting in the field have never noticed recoil.

I believe the most unpleasant rifle I have ever shot was a Winchester 1886 45-70 carbine with a crescent steel butt plate. Because of the design I remember the recoil to have been displeasing.

I’m planning on the 404 weighing 9lb scoped and the 500 10.5 but this will just be opened sighted. I’ve got a dead mule recoil reducer I may use in the 500 if it’s got too much. I’ve never shot anything like it, I’m sure it will be fun.

Worst thing I’ve ever shot was an old savage 12 gauge single barrel with a steel butt plate. I was 18 and nothing has ever hurt that much since.

 

[John A Flaws]

Your 404 will be comfortable at 9 pounds especially if you shoot loads around 2150 FPS, I have never used a recoil reducer so I have no experience with them I have read a bit about the use of them and have been curious about how effective they are.

 

[Bert Reynolds]

Your 404 will be comfortable at 9 pounds especially if you shoot loads around 2150 FPS, I have never used a recoil reducer so I have no experience with them I have read a bit about the use of them and have been curious about how effective they are.

I will load it light and see how well I tolerate shooting it. I guess if I load it up to rigby velocity I will get worse than rigby recoil. As my rifle (standard Mauser action) will be lighter than a rigby and the pressure higher.

 

[Huvius]

I pulled some photos off the internet . I don’t know how helpful this will be , though .

These two are German pre-World War II advertisements of the .500 Schuler .
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This is an original German August Schuler Model “ Jumbo “ in .500 Schuler .
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Standard length Mauser action with 3 round magazine capacity .

@xausa will be able to shed more light on this , because he’s an extremely competent gunsmith who worked with the .500 Jeffery and .505 Gibbs before .

I own this rifle.
This one also has the little tongue inside the magazine to hold the top cartridge over against the left wall. It's a much better method than the double clips Westley Richards used on their 425s in my opinion.
I owned a very nice 425 with the clips. There is a lot of work in that design but the Schuler method is easy and removes no metal at all from the action.
Also, wanted to add that the follower is simply a piece of tubing brazed to a flat plate which keeps the cartridge stack roughly centered in the magazine until the top cartridge comes in contact with the interior clip holding it against the left wall.

 

[Bert Reynolds]

I own this rifle.
This one also has the little tongue inside the magazine to hold the top cartridge over against the left wall. It's a much better method than the double clips Westley Richards used on their 425s in my opinion.
I owned a very nice 425 with the clips. There is a lot of work in that design but the Schuler method is easy and removes no metal at all from the action.
Also, wanted to add that the follower is simply a piece of tubing brazed to a flat plate which keeps the cartridge stack roughly centered in the magazine until the top cartridge comes in contact with the interior clip holding it against the left wall.

You wouldn’t feel like sharing some good pics of the tongue arrangement? I’m making the magazine arrangement, but I’ve never seen a good pic of how schuler done the mogazine internals.

 

[Huvius]

I'd start with a standard bottom metal as Schuler did.
I'm glad you asked because I had never had this rifle apart so it was a good learning experience for me as well to take a close look inside the build of the action!

Here you can see the extension was welded and filed to the bottom metal.

And the clip is screwed into the inside.

The clip is let into the wall though so it is flush internally.

The extension looks to be sheet formed on a radius and welded in prior to filing.

 

[Huvius]

The semi - tubular follower. I notice that it is a little taller on the left so empty, it come right flush under the lip in the inside of the left rail.

More photos: