Gentlemen:
I’m going to chime in here and add my two cents if you don’t mind. I’d like to comment on a few issues.
1. Thanks for coming to the shoot and I’m pleased it was both enjoyable and educational. All who read this are welcome.
2. Recoil of large doubles.
I read in a post above of a fella that thought his shoulder was dislocated upon firing a .577. Nonsense! Either the shooter was a small woman or the rifle weighed five pounds. In all honesty, the recoil is greatly blown out of proportion. When I was researching my book on the .600 I ran into many stories of the recoil and killing power. Some are: the recoil spun me around a half turn, my ears began to bleed, the fillings came loose in my teeth, my shoulder was broken, and how a Cape buffalo did a back flip when hit with a frontal shot. It’s all bullshit, gentlemen. No one, repeat no one, three peat NO ONE known how to build rifles and shotguns as do the British and Scottish. The weights are adjusted in the firearm to accommodate the recoil. For double shotguns, the formula is 96 times the weight of the shot charge, decided by 16. So, for a shotgun firing a one ounce load, the gun should weigh 6 pounds. This formula is found in all of my shotguns with 1, 1 1/8, 1 1/4, 1 1/2, 2 1/2, 3 1/2, and 4 ounce loads (the latter three are 8- and 4-bores). So it is with double rifles. A few years ago I did some calculations on recoil and the article was published in the African Hunter magazine. I’m going from memory now so don’t quote me exactly but you will get the idea. A 9 pound .450-400 will have the same felt recoil (if all else is equal) as a 10-pound .450, an 11-pound .500, a 12 1/2 pound .577 and a 15-pound .600. Everyone who has shot my .600, while it does kick a good bit, mentions how little it was compared to what they have read.
3. Price and depreciation.
I’m amazed by folks who save and save to buy a double and who want nothing but an new production. Spend $90,000 on a new Corvette and the price drops each year due to depreciation. Send the same on a 1969 big block and the value increases each year. It’s the same with firearms. Anything new, from the lowest Baikal to the finest Holland Royal will fall in value as it is now a second hand gun and there is competition with all the other new makers and models. Why not buy a vintage double and have a combination of history, much finer workmanship, balance, feel, and the bugs have been worked out over the decades. And, the value will increase over the years as they are not making them any longer. Twenty years ago 4-bores sold for $45,000. The last Holland sold a few months ago for $255,000.
4. One gent here is looking for a combination rifle and shotgun. I have one but it’s a vintage one from the 1870s and can’t sell it as everyone wants a new one. So, I gave it to a quality antique shop to sell for me. It has everything, two-tiered oak and leather case, every accessory known to man, rifle and shotgun barrels with mint bores and both original, amazing history, etc., Yet, everyone want a new Sabatti with a set of 20 gauge barrels. I can’t figure it out.
5. New doubles today.
All are good working guns. Personally I don’t care for the lines and feel of a German double. If I had to pick a new double (outside of English) I would go with a Verney Caron. Very well made for the price and of exceptional quality. And, Jerome and Ken are skookum gents.
As mentioned, just my two cents.
Cal
I’m going to chime in here and add my two cents if you don’t mind. I’d like to comment on a few issues.
1. Thanks for coming to the shoot and I’m pleased it was both enjoyable and educational. All who read this are welcome.
2. Recoil of large doubles.
I read in a post above of a fella that thought his shoulder was dislocated upon firing a .577. Nonsense! Either the shooter was a small woman or the rifle weighed five pounds. In all honesty, the recoil is greatly blown out of proportion. When I was researching my book on the .600 I ran into many stories of the recoil and killing power. Some are: the recoil spun me around a half turn, my ears began to bleed, the fillings came loose in my teeth, my shoulder was broken, and how a Cape buffalo did a back flip when hit with a frontal shot. It’s all bullshit, gentlemen. No one, repeat no one, three peat NO ONE known how to build rifles and shotguns as do the British and Scottish. The weights are adjusted in the firearm to accommodate the recoil. For double shotguns, the formula is 96 times the weight of the shot charge, decided by 16. So, for a shotgun firing a one ounce load, the gun should weigh 6 pounds. This formula is found in all of my shotguns with 1, 1 1/8, 1 1/4, 1 1/2, 2 1/2, 3 1/2, and 4 ounce loads (the latter three are 8- and 4-bores). So it is with double rifles. A few years ago I did some calculations on recoil and the article was published in the African Hunter magazine. I’m going from memory now so don’t quote me exactly but you will get the idea. A 9 pound .450-400 will have the same felt recoil (if all else is equal) as a 10-pound .450, an 11-pound .500, a 12 1/2 pound .577 and a 15-pound .600. Everyone who has shot my .600, while it does kick a good bit, mentions how little it was compared to what they have read.
3. Price and depreciation.
I’m amazed by folks who save and save to buy a double and who want nothing but an new production. Spend $90,000 on a new Corvette and the price drops each year due to depreciation. Send the same on a 1969 big block and the value increases each year. It’s the same with firearms. Anything new, from the lowest Baikal to the finest Holland Royal will fall in value as it is now a second hand gun and there is competition with all the other new makers and models. Why not buy a vintage double and have a combination of history, much finer workmanship, balance, feel, and the bugs have been worked out over the decades. And, the value will increase over the years as they are not making them any longer. Twenty years ago 4-bores sold for $45,000. The last Holland sold a few months ago for $255,000.
4. One gent here is looking for a combination rifle and shotgun. I have one but it’s a vintage one from the 1870s and can’t sell it as everyone wants a new one. So, I gave it to a quality antique shop to sell for me. It has everything, two-tiered oak and leather case, every accessory known to man, rifle and shotgun barrels with mint bores and both original, amazing history, etc., Yet, everyone want a new Sabatti with a set of 20 gauge barrels. I can’t figure it out.
5. New doubles today.
All are good working guns. Personally I don’t care for the lines and feel of a German double. If I had to pick a new double (outside of English) I would go with a Verney Caron. Very well made for the price and of exceptional quality. And, Jerome and Ken are skookum gents.
As mentioned, just my two cents.
Cal
