500 Jeffery Recoil?

[Daniel Cary]

I'm still shocked how impressive this Cartridge is regardless of the variables, every time... I have 40 reloads, as this firearm's previous owner regulated it at 50 yrds. 101grn RL15 'c 600 grn. Woodleigh's @ 2100fps???

 

[Aussie_Hunter]

I load the 600 grain Woodleighs at 2200fps using RL17, 535 grain Woodligh RNSN at 2380fps & 535 grain Woodleigh PP at 2467fps and the recoil feels pretty much the same to me across all 3 loads.

 

[colorado]

So sporty lol?

 

[Aussie_Hunter]

So sporty lol?

Sporty is one way of describing it haha spent a bit of time yesterday shooting it off sticks just to see how accurate I can be with the red dot, only ended up firing 8 rounds, that's my first 2 shots at 70m, can't complain about that the Blaser red dot is

 

[colorado]

Very nice shooting

 

[Dr. Crack]

I've loaded my 500 Jeffery up to 2510 fps with 570g Barnes TSX's. I had to switch to a slower power, IMR 4350. No pressure signs, recoil was stiff. Fun index was low. We all have our recoil limit. That's why I throttled back to 2300 fps. You'll find your perfect load within your recoil tolerance.

I've loaded my 500 Jeffery up to 2510 fps with 570g Barnes TSX's. I had to switch to a slower power, IMR 4350. No pressure signs, recoil was stiff. Fun index was low. We all have our recoil limit. That's why I throttled back to 2300 fps. You'll find your perfect load within your recoil tolerance.

My God 6700 versus 7900 fy. lbs Ahhhhhhhh!!

 

[Daniel Cary]

 

[spike.t]

View attachment 376421

Hi have you tried the kynoch ammo out?...the only ammo I found here when first got my 500 were 2 and half boxes of it....found the bolt very sticky trying to open after each shot....like having to make a real effort to get the bolt to lift....no probs with norma ph or the sako ammo which I prefer...535 a frames as opposed to the 570grn in norma...as mine weighs about 9.5lbs the norma are bit harsh...but the sako fine...also when was messing around doing fast cycling I found the plated norma ammo was jumping out....the brass sako can do it as fast as I can and no probs just loads and ejects....remembered reading here someone had same issue and roughed up the cases...so got some sandpaper and scrubbed away...touch wood seems to have sorted it...but as said like the sako better...but yeah interested in your experience with the kynoch ammo

 

[spike.t]

And also am jealous at all your 500 ammo on display

 

[rookhawk]

Hi have you tried the kynoch ammo out?...the only ammo I found here when first got my 500 were 2 and half boxes of it....found the bolt very sticky trying to open after each shot....like having to make a real effort to get the bolt to lift....no probs with norma ph or the sako ammo which I prefer...535 a frames as opposed to the 570grn in norma...as mine weighs about 9.5lbs the norma are bit harsh...but the sako fine...also when was messing around doing fast cycling I found the plated norma ammo was jumping out....the brass sako can do it as fast as I can and no probs just loads and ejects....remembered reading here someone had same issue and roughed up the cases...so got some sandpaper and scrubbed away...touch wood seems to have sorted it...but as said like the sako better...but yeah interested in your experience with the kynoch ammo

No idea what Kynamco ammo is using for powder these days in 500 Jefferey, but the original loading was surely stranded cordite. Stranded cordite was A very mild recoiling powder choice for large bores.

I’ve seen 500 Jefferey receipes that use Vartarg and of course IMR3031. The latter will probably not fill the case, hence the lawyers factory loading are uncomfortable with that load so they use a slower burning powder that requires more grains. (More recoil)

A fast burning powder with Dacron stuffing to keep the powder pushed back against the primer will reproduce the proper original ballistics while greatly diminishing the recoil. (But not reducing the velocity!)

 

[Daniel Cary]

I have not used up the Kynoch, sorry as I'm probably the last person to speak on behalf. However, I've heard the same through conversation and frankly some distributers just do not like Kynoch, regardless of caliber. I really don't know why? .. in short, the AHR came with 100 rounds of Jamison/ 600 grn's loaded to 2100 fps. I don't know if that's an ideal spec, but they're certainly in the pocket.
The Norma 540's seem to be the most miserable for some reason, recoil & my accuracy at least.

This is all in practice though, not in the field yet.
Thank you for bringing this up. Really good responses above!

 

[rookhawk]

@Daniel Cary the reason some people do not like Kynoch is because they believe the ammo is faulty, neutered, and sub-standard performance. (It is not)

The 1921/1926 Kynoch data that is reprinted in Graeme Wright’s book is rather insightful. The short story is this In summary:

1.) The original loads for about everything relied upon now extinct stranded cordite.
2.) The velocities published were embellished. Typically about 35fps-50fps bolder than reality.
3.) Almost all proof barrels were 28”. Whereas most gun barrels were 24”-26”. With the original stranded cordite loads you were losing 25-35fps per inch of barrel less than 28”.

One such example is this. The regulating load for a 470NE is really about 2050fps-2075fps, but a lot of people assume its 2150fps-2200fps.

So in light of the above, these original rounds in the original guns are the source of all the verified data that were covered by all the greats in their African Hunts. The largebore Kynoch loads in real-world use were sufficient in the popular calibers from 450-400 all the way through 577NE. Certainly 500 Jeffery is in that camp too.

The problem comes in today when someone that has either hot-rodded their loads, or has a modern powder that generates much more recoil than stranded cordite to achieve the same velocities, tries the original kynoch loadings. They then assume something is defective or neutered with the original load when in fact, the problem is the modern loads are not correct and are overpowered. Does it matter in a magazine rifle? Probably not. Does it matter in a double rifle? Yes, yes it does.

 

[Tanks]

View attachment 376421

And also am jealous at all your 500 ammo on display

Tell me you are rich without telling me... #tellmechallenge

 

[Daniel Cary]

Excellent rookhawk, Thank You! .. I tried to capitalize on the ammo when they offered a deal.

I was never really interested in being wealthy, per say. In retrospect, What the hell was I thinking?!
Tanks man!

 

[oldfart009]

I own an rifle of this caliber and shot amongst other things some elephants with it. It's a very good cartridge for this purpose.

Nevertheless, I would also warn about the recoil of rifles of this caliber. Many rifles of the caliber 500 Jeffery are sold again on a regular basis in our countries so it cannot be excluded that some people have problems with the recoil of this rifles.

Reduced loads or a lot of systems to reduce the recoil are not a good solution for an traditional big game rifle.

The recoil with regular non reduced loads is very strong, but anyone who is familiar with the recoil of rifles such as caliber 460 WBY-Magnum will not have any problems with that.

 

[Daniel Cary]

 

[colorado]

Tis but a maiden's kiss

 

[rookhawk]

Hi have you tried the kynoch ammo out?...the only ammo I found here when first got my 500 were 2 and half boxes of it....found the bolt very sticky trying to open after each shot....like having to make a real effort to get the bolt to lift....no probs with norma ph or the sako ammo which I prefer...535 a frames as opposed to the 570grn in norma...as mine weighs about 9.5lbs the norma are bit harsh...but the sako fine...also when was messing around doing fast cycling I found the plated norma ammo was jumping out....the brass sako can do it as fast as I can and no probs just loads and ejects....remembered reading here someone had same issue and roughed up the cases...so got some sandpaper and scrubbed away...touch wood seems to have sorted it...but as said like the sako better...but yeah interested in your experience with the kynoch ammo

I’d be interested to know with a comparator measurement of your fired versus unfired kynoch whether there is a problem with the size of the brass causing headspace problems, or if the problem is excess pressure. If it ends up being headspace, they could be fire-formed or reloaded (if enough material remains in the neck and web) to resolve the issue.

I had a 318 Westley that purported to have excess headspace with “full length sized modern brass” but I slipped a 100 year old Kynoch into the chamber and fired the gun and it showed no such headspace problems. Conclusion: Kynoch brass was matched to the original chamber specs of my gun. Once I realized that was the case, I bought new brass and did not full length size it, just bumped the shoulder until the bolt closed with the tiniest of resistance. Zero case head separation and no more thinning of the web.

I suspect a lot of these problems stem from numerical conversion from London/Birmingham proof house specifications of these rounds and chambers versus conversations to CIP metric blueprints. Rounding errors matter and they do happen going from imperial to metric.

 

[colorado]

I own an rifle of this caliber and shot amongst other things some elephants with it. It's a very good cartridge for this purpose.

Nevertheless, I would also warn about the recoil of rifles of this caliber. Many rifles of the caliber 500 Jeffery are sold again on a regular basis in our countries so it cannot be excluded that some people have problems with the recoil of this rifles.

Reduced loads or a lot of systems to reduce the recoil are not a good solution for an traditional big game rifle.

The recoil with regular non reduced loads is very strong, but anyone who is familiar with the recoil of rifles such as caliber 460 WBY-Magnum will not have any problems with that.

I agree the recoil of full power loads is startling at first. Took awhile to get used to it. If you've shot a 458 Win Mag, or 458 Lott it's not even in the ball park

 

[Accidental Villain]

Hi have you tried the kynoch ammo out?...the only ammo I found here when first got my 500 were 2 and half boxes of it....found the bolt very sticky trying to open after each shot....like having to make a real effort to get the bolt to lift....no probs with norma ph or the sako ammo which I prefer...535 a frames as opposed to the 570grn in norma...as mine weighs about 9.5lbs the norma are bit harsh...but the sako fine...also when was messing around doing fast cycling I found the plated norma ammo was jumping out....the brass sako can do it as fast as I can and no probs just loads and ejects....remembered reading here someone had same issue and roughed up the cases...so got some sandpaper and scrubbed away...touch wood seems to have sorted it...but as said like the sako better...but yeah interested in your experience with the kynoch ammo

Could it be your Bertram (Kynoch) cases are too soft? I`ve experienced the same case sticking issues with Kynoch ammo (416 Rigby) so I did some research both on domestic and international sites and found more examples. Also on this forum.
Wonder how this ammo would work in a straight pull action?))