50 alaskan

[Papabear55]

Currently i have load with:
450gr A frames at 2050fps
450gr hard cast at 1800fps (light loads)
435gr hard cast at 2100fps

I plan to load 450gr barnes original fnsp to atleast 2000fps and 535gr hard cast to about 1800 or 1900fps

I feel fairly confident with all those loads minus maybe originals on DG. At the very least for the DG I'm likely to find up here in alaska

 

[AustinM]

Currently i have load with:
450gr A frames at 2050fps
450gr hard cast at 1800fps (light loads)
435gr hard cast at 2100fps

I plan to load 450gr barnes original fnsp to atleast 2000fps and 535gr hard cast to about 1800 or 1900fps

I feel fairly confident with all those loads minus maybe originals on DG. At the very least for the DG I'm likely to find up here in alaska

Those loads should handle anything you come across in Alaska. If they do not, then you might be on the wrong planet.

 

[Papabear55]

Those loads should handle anything you come across in Alaska. If they do not, then you might be on the wrong planet.

I honestly think they'd handle anything in africa as well if legal

 

[DrBob]

Based on my admittedly limited experience taking four buffalo bulls and being around the taking of perhaps half a dozen others, I would not. A .375. much less a .500 NE would be much more effective.

It would be great on moose, wild boar, and black bear. It frankly would not be a first choice for grizzly or coastal brown.

Cor-Bon did a penetration test with their solids for the 45-70. Through and through penetration of a cape side to side. OK... so it can kill a cape... but it renders no huge temp or permanent cavity and is no way will stop a cape. All things considered, a heart shot would not lead to any quick kill. The 450 Alaskan was Johnson's ideal lever action Alaskan cartridge.

 

[AustinM]

I honestly think they'd handle anything in africa as well if legal

Looking at the ballistics of the old black powder loads for the cartridges commonly used in Africa, it runs slightly faster than the majority of it. Along with a well made bullet, I see no reason why it would not work anywhere on the planet. The technology surrounding firearms and ammunition has improved and continues to do so, but the animals have relatively remained the same.

 

[Green Chile]

I’m pretty sure the chap who took an ele cow with a .50 Alaskan is on this forum too.
Actually, for the OP, enjoy:

Elephant With A

That was me almost 20 years ago! The 50 Alaskan would NOT have been my first choice for ele. It was my daily carry rifle in rural Alaska for moose, bear, etc. Buzz Charlton wanted me to bring it so we could video it and he encouraged me to write a magazine story, which I did. Buzz and Myles and Alan were carrying bolt actions back then (416s and 458s) and all have moved on to bigger doubles. It worked out fine on the ele brain shot but I wouldn't do it again. I don't even like a 375 for ele but that's the minimum of course. I prefer something between .416 to .500 for ele.

 

[Certus]

That was me almost 20 years ago! The 50 Alaskan would NOT have been my first choice for ele. It was my daily carry rifle in rural Alaska for moose, bear, etc. Buzz Charlton wanted me to bring it so we could video it and he encouraged me to write a magazine story, which I did. Buzz and Myles and Alan were carrying bolt actions back then (416s and 458s) and all have moved on to bigger doubles. It worked out fine on the ele brain shot but I wouldn't do it again. I don't even like a 375 for ele but that's the minimum of course. I prefer something between .416 to .500 for ele.

I’m curious why you say that - your report indicated knockdown power (dropping elephant with a near miss of the brain) and loads of penetration.

 

[Green Chile]

You ask a good question and I will offer what Paul Harvey would say is the rest of the story. We really stressed the Marlin 1895 design by taking it to 50 Alaskan levels and probably beyond for the elephant. I needed some speed from those bullets and I had a full length mag tube. Numerous times in testing, I shot the end cap off of the mag tube. I sheared the front sight off twice. I crushed several mag springs from the heavy battering. They would get compressed and then lose their integrity.

At the end of my tuskless hunt in Zim, I shot several rounds quickly to make sure the ele was anchored...insurance shots basically as the herd was collapsing on us in anger. I will be sharing this in my update to that hunt report soon but I was shocked as we backed away from the upset herd to find out that my reloading was dropping the rounds in with no spring resistance in the tube. They were just falling in and I could tilt them back and forth freely. Whoa! My rifle had turned into a single shot. When I got home, the gun had to be rebuilt with stronger screws, replacement springs, etc. We just pushed that little carbine too far.

 

[Papabear55]

You ask a good question and I will offer what Paul Harvey would say is the rest of the story. We really stressed the Marlin 1895 design by taking it to 50 Alaskan levels and probably beyond for the elephant. I needed some speed from those bullets and I had a full length mag tube. Numerous times in testing, I shot the end cap off of the mag tube. I sheared the front sight off twice. I crushed several mag springs from the heavy battering. They would get compressed and then lose their integrity.

At the end of my tuskless hunt in Zim, I shot several rounds quickly to make sure the ele was anchored...insurance shots basically as the herd was collapsing on us in anger. I will be sharing this in my update to that hunt report soon but I was shocked as we backed away from the upset herd to find out that my reloading was dropping the rounds in with no spring resistance in the tube. They were just falling in and I could tilt them back and forth freely. Whoa! My rifle had turned into a single shot. When I got home, the gun had to be rebuilt with stronger screws, replacement springs, etc. We just pushed that little carbine too far.

I had a conversation with Emerson of Garrett cartridges, he said he had to put 2 mag springs in his rifle

 

[Green Chile]

Ashley actually helped me prep this custom 50 Alaskan for the ele hunt. Ask him about that sometime. I would have never taken that little carbine for ele without his support and design ideas after it was built. It was never built for that level but he helped me get there successfully. I just wouldn't do it again.

 

[Certus]

@Green Chile thank you for that response. I didn’t actually consider spring integrity as a factor. It makes sense why you wouldn’t again. Lots of factors with larger power levels in leverguns it seems.
You don’t have this issue with less powerful loads, or is it the weight of the cartridges?

Cheers.

 

[Green Chile]

I don't have the engineering background to explain it correctly but my take on it is that there are design limitations that add up to mechanical failures in several ways. There is a lot of reciprocating mass in the mag tube with those heavy cartridges slamming back and forth. It's like there is a baseball bat underneath the barrel swinging back and forth in short but vicious movements. Springs and screws fail under those loads. Also the lever guns are far too light with this level of power and the stock designs are not conducive to lessening recoil. They actually magnify recoil. Some of the nastiest guns to shoot are the old crescent butt plate lever actions with a lot of drop in the stock. Not big power but not friendly.

 

[michael458]

When I got home, the gun had to be rebuilt with stronger screws, replacement springs, etc. We just pushed that little carbine too far.

@Green Chile , over the years I have heard many a tale about some of these lever guns being pushed way way too hard, I commend you for knowing what you were doing, and admitting it afterwards. So many do it, and claim it to be common practice..........

I have a couple of 51 Alaskans. .510 caliber. I did a Marlin as well, and a Ruger #1. I have shot the #1 far more than the Marlin.

Just after I had those done, I created the 50 B&M Alaskan..... .500 caliber. Take Starline 51 AK squeeze it down to hold .500 caliber. I did this back in early 2007. There are two lever guns that can be easy converted to either 51 or 50, the Marlin as mentioned, and the Winchester/Browning M71s that came in 348 Winchester. I did both, the first 50 B&M AK was a Guide Gun converted, and a Hi Grade Browning M71. Later I did a Marlin pistol grip version, that is far superior in handling recoil than the Guide gun version. Similar to the M71s.

In those early years, I was very busy with the various B&M Bolt guns, too much to do a lot with the lever guns at that time. There were far more .500 caliber bullets available that would work great with these cartridges than there was .510 caliber. To mention one, the 500 gr Hornady Flat Soft Point. I quickly just put together a load for this Guide gun running the 500 Hornady at 1950 fps, the gun worked fine, all is good, and put the project to the sideline for the time being.

I had this Marlin Pistol grip version done, but had not fired it or messed with it at all. Then the Hi Grade Browning M71 which I was also shooting the 500 Hornady at 1950 fps or so...... all good.... UNTIL......

Layne Simpson loves lever guns, through JD Jones he learned about the 50 B&M Alaskan and wanted to do an article on them. So he touched base, and I was going to send him the Pistol Grip Marlin and one of the M71s for him to play with and do the magazine Article. Before sending, I thought maybe I should shoot the Marlin a few times before sending, make sure there was no issues. Well that same 500 Hornady at 1950 fps that worked so good in the Guide Gun, LOCKED Up the Pistol Grip version tight! Ooppps........ Not good! So I got busy, loaded down to 1850 fps and sent Layne the guns for the article....... All worked great.

All lever guns are not created equal. That Guide Gun handled much more than the Pistol Grip version. When I got the rifle back, I put a strain gage on it, and started working up loads and getting real pressure data.

You want to keep the Marlins at or around 45000 PSI, the Browning M71s can handle just a bit more at or around 50000 PSI. If you go beyond that over the long haul you will end up with some issues.

BTW, all my Lever 50 B&M AKs are 18 inch guns. I could run the 500 Hornady to 1873 fps at 45200 PSI, I backed it down to 1842 fps for 42000 PSI....... In the Marlins.

Layne and I did a good bit of load data in the 50 B&M AKs, he also had a musket built in 50 B&M Alaskan at 22 inches with a laminated stainless Marlin, this is Layne's rifle;

It was 2011 before I went to the field with the 50 B&M AK, and by that time we had designed some special bullets for the mission at hand. We developed a 405 gr Lever Solid at CEB and a matching 365 gr Lever Raptor. I used one of the Browning Hi Grades running the 365 Lever Raptor to 2175 fps and the 405 Lever Solid to 2120 fps. The Solids were Impressive. I did not take elephant, but the cartridge, rifle and of course most important, the BULLETs did a number on hippo and buffalo. Not to mention these guns are FAST.........

We developed several bullets from CEB and North Fork for these rifles and they proved to be very capable.

Of course I still have the 51's....... and wanted a bullet combination for them as well..... so I had CEB do a 350 gr Raptor and 400 gr matching Solid in .510 caliber...........

And to be honest, I never ordered any 400 Solids and never tested them. Since I would never take a .51 to the field I never took the time. I am 100% sure the 350 Lever Raptor and 400 Lever Solid in .510 caliber would perform the same as the .500 caliber versions.......

If you had a 51 AK, it would be to your advantage to look at the 350 Raptor and the 400 Solids, depending on your mission.

Don't get confused between .500 and .510 either......... LOL