475 Nitro Express - Experience

BTW: why would a ph not allow a hammer rifle for hunting DG?
I’ve never heard of such a thin either.
There is no reason that a hammer gun would be any more or less reliable than a hammerless as the cocking action is generally all the same.
One real benefit of a hammer gun is that in the event of a misfire, one can simply recook the hammer and try again - in a hammerless, you must open the rifle to recock it.
Against this point, however is the notion that it would be better to eject the cartridge and replace with a fresh one anyway…
Also, you drop your rifle or fall and break a hammer it becomes a single shot or you cock without the hammer spur if it happens to break at that point.

We read of accounts of some unusual occurrences such as branches cocking a hammer while going through brush or even gunbearers inadvertently cocking a rifle but those things aren’t as likely in today’s world IMO.
 
@rookhawk : I'd much prefer to have a hammer rifle in .500NE, but unfortunately I have not seen many examples of it. I had found multiple .475NE hammer rifles on continental Europe however. Which is why I asked about them.

BTW: why would a ph not allow a hammer rifle for hunting DG?

Cocking them gives away your location potentially. They are slow to reload. Most have non-functional or missing stalking safeties that make them unsafe. Fidgeting for a stalking safety is distracting and cannot be done without putting your eyes on the gun rather than the animal. Lastly, on many hammer guns you cannot reload them without half-cocking the hammers to retract the firing pins so you can open the top lever, or get the bottom lever open without potentially breaking the strikers.

I certainly wouldn’t want to be in the bush with someone using a hammer gun on DG. Sort of similar to, I would never do a walk-up (rough) upland hunt with someone carrying a hammer gun. Hammer guns are fine for skeet and fine for continental driven hunts at a peg, but not really useful for anything else.

For the range, enjoying a hammer rifle recreationally, I’d get a high grade 450 BPE. Not worth much, very attractive, fun to shoot, use cast lead bullets so you control the supply chain, etc.
 
The .475 Nitro Express is a very reliable dangerous game caliber.

Bruce Bertram manufactures the cases. Wim Degol manufactures the bullets. Most of the double rifles which I’ve seen in this caliber… were built by WJ Jeffery.
 
Cocking them gives away your location potentially. They are slow to reload. Most have non-functional or missing stalking safeties that make them unsafe. Fidgeting for a stalking safety is distracting and cannot be done without putting your eyes on the gun rather than the animal. Lastly, on many hammer guns you cannot reload them without half-cocking the hammers to retract the firing pins so you can open the top lever, or get the bottom lever open without potentially breaking the strikers.

I certainly wouldn’t want to be in the bush with someone using a hammer gun on DG. Sort of similar to, I would never do a walk-up (rough) upland hunt with someone carrying a hammer gun. Hammer guns are fine for skeet and fine for continental driven hunts at a peg, but not really useful for anything else.

For the range, enjoying a hammer rifle recreationally, I’d get a high grade 450 BPE. Not worth much, very attractive, fun to shoot, use cast lead bullets so you control the supply chain, etc.

I agree, it is not a common, nor a contemporary sight on any shoot or safari.

However:
- Having a loaded firearm, with only a small sliding safety between peace and chaos, walking for many miles, is not ideal. Blaser and Krieghoff recognized this, and made their sliding safety have a cocking and de-cocking function. Unfortunately, together with all the other "built for safety, modernity" stuff, (at least the Krieghoff double rifle, as I have not held a S2 in my hands) they are pretty much feeling like a lead bar in your hands.

- Having a double rifle with external hammers in a common NE cartridge, with ejectors. Only two positions, cocked or not. Rebounding hammers. Automatic cocking of the hammers upon opening. Top lever with a non-automatic sliding safety. Double triggers obviously. All of this together with the original British styling get's you the same functionality as the Krieghoff or the Blaser S2, in a much more attractive package.

- Upon leaving the vehicle, you load up, then gently let the hammers back down. You are now ready to take up the tracks. There is no possible way for the gun to fire. Everyone can relax.

- Game is spotted, the final stalk is about to commence, rifle goes in the hands, hammers are cocked, sliding safety is on, with the thumb resting on it.

- Ready for the shot, in one movement rifle is brought to shoulder, sliding safety is pushed off and gun is fired. Not moving the hands whatsoever, the top lever is operated, the double rifle is "broken open" with both hands, simultaneously cocking the two hammers again. Reload with the off-hand as usual, rifle is closed and you are ready to fire again.

I can only see benefits, both in style, form and safety. The hammers could be broken off, and you could still cock by opening and closing. For everyone around you to see, when hammers are down, rifle is safe.

I cannot get this concept out of my head.
 
What I think you’re describing is a standard tang safety. I’ve only seen one hammer shotgun with those, modern, best grade SIACE guns from Italy.

In the era of double nitro-express hammer guns, they had stalking safeties on the island locks. One for each hammer. They suck.

I’d direct you to the recent thread on a dead hunter in Uganda. The report indicates the noise from the client’s gun in a misfire resulted in a buffalo charge and his untimely passing.

A stalking safety, quantity two, means you get to make clicking sounds and fumble with a hammer gun every time you attempt to shoot it.

Trying to open that gun (non-rebounding hammers) you have to pull the hammers to half cock, then open the bottom or top lever. (Both to retract the strikers, and in a top lever scenario so that the top lever will clear the hammers.

There was a very nice Rigby hammer double rifle in the USA with a Jones under lever in 470NE for about a decade. It was on Gunsinternational and it was really, truly, always a 470NE which is an unusual caliber for a hammer gun. That gun languished for a decade unsold at $14k or best offer if memory served me right. It speaks to the market demand and preferences for dangerous game rifles in hammer gun configuration.

Yes, I agree with you, if you were to go to Purdey and order a 250,000 euro best grade hammer, tang safety, intercepting sears, rebounding hammers, ejectors, auto openers, it would be just as reliable and safe as any hammerless configuration. I don’t think that gun ever existed, but with infinite money you could will it into existence. What does exist in the vintage marketplace is not something I think you’d enjoy or trust for dangerous game hunting. You would enjoy a 450BPE or 360NE hammer gun for recreational shooting. All the better if you kill European game from a blind with it which you absolutely could do.
 
Stalking safety picture for reference when they exist and work, although they often malfunctioned from wear and were removed from hammer double rifles:

1739547812760.jpeg


1739547965247.jpeg
 
I agree, it is not a common, nor a contemporary sight on any shoot or safari.

However:
- Having a loaded firearm, with only a small sliding safety between peace and chaos, walking for many miles, is not ideal. Blaser and Krieghoff recognized this, and made their sliding safety have a cocking and de-cocking function. Unfortunately, together with all the other "built for safety, modernity" stuff, (at least the Krieghoff double rifle, as I have not held a S2 in my hands) they are pretty much feeling like a lead bar in your hands.

- Having a double rifle with external hammers in a common NE cartridge, with ejectors. Only two positions, cocked or not. Rebounding hammers. Automatic cocking of the hammers upon opening. Top lever with a non-automatic sliding safety. Double triggers obviously. All of this together with the original British styling get's you the same functionality as the Krieghoff or the Blaser S2, in a much more attractive package.

- Upon leaving the vehicle, you load up, then gently let the hammers back down. You are now ready to take up the tracks. There is no possible way for the gun to fire. Everyone can relax.

- Game is spotted, the final stalk is about to commence, rifle goes in the hands, hammers are cocked, sliding safety is on, with the thumb resting on it.

- Ready for the shot, in one movement rifle is brought to shoulder, sliding safety is pushed off and gun is fired. Not moving the hands whatsoever, the top lever is operated, the double rifle is "broken open" with both hands, simultaneously cocking the two hammers again. Reload with the off-hand as usual, rifle is closed and you are ready to fire again.

I can only see benefits, both in style, form and safety. The hammers could be broken off, and you could still cock by opening and closing. For everyone around you to see, when hammers are down, rifle is safe.

I cannot get this concept out of my head.
That is assuming your hammer gun is self cocking - most are not.
I agree overall though that being able to SEE that a gun is safe has a benefit. Most hammerless guns don’t have cocking indicators and those that do are for the shooter, not obvious enough to see from a few feet away.
 
This Siace double rifle is very attractive, unsure if it would be possible to get it in a big game calibre thought.

 
This Siace double rifle is very attractive, unsure if it would be possible to get it in a big game calibre thought.


Looks awesome. Odd that the double rifle has no safety, but the shotgun has a lovely tang safety on the hammer gun. Strange they wouldn't retain that valuable feature.
 
Looks awesome. Odd that the double rifle has no safety, but the shotgun has a lovely tang safety on the hammer gun. Strange they wouldn't retain that valuable feature.
Thats very odd indeed, but I would assume that they are happy to build the double rifle with the same safety as the shotgun. I was in contact with them a few years ago asking about the possibility of ordering the Alaska EL in .375 Flanged Magnum (before I found my second hand doublerifle in .375 Flanged Magnum) and was told that it was no problem at all, everything was possible more or less.
 
Purdey currently make hammer shotguns again..seems to be in fashion..
 
Thats very odd indeed, but I would assume that they are happy to build the double rifle with the same safety as the shotgun. I was in contact with them a few years ago asking about the possibility of ordering the Alaska EL in .375 Flanged Magnum (before I found my second hand doublerifle in .375 Flanged Magnum) and was told that it was no problem at all, everything was possible more or less.

A 375 Flanged hammer gun with a tang safety would probably be the perfect setup for a hammer rifle. It would get used a lot, it could take a buffalo once in a lifetime, it would be great on cats, bears, deer, stags, elk, plains game, etc. If it was a top lever with ejectors, it would be incredible on driven boar too.
 
A friend of mine has a 1906 vintage Jeffery double hammer in 450/400 3"..with top lever and a tang safety.. He took it to Zim and brain shot an elephant with it..the PH did not mind those hammers.
 
A friend of mine has a 1906 vintage Jeffery double hammer in 450/400 3"..with top lever and a tang safety.. He took it to Zim and brain shot an elephant with it..the PH did not mind those hammers.
so they do exist!
Did it have automatic cocking hammers upon opening/closing?
 
This might be a cheap way to test the waters, before taking the plunge for a more expensive one I mean, if memory serves they are not very expensive. Wrong calibre, but close enough I'd say.

 
This might be a cheap way to test the waters, before taking the plunge for a more expensive one I mean, if memory serves they are not very expensive. Wrong calibre, but close enough I'd say.

to be clear, I'm not at all looking for a .475NE necessarily. Any straight walled NE case that is usuable on an elephant, would be fine. Ideally .500NE, but .450NE would be fine too
 

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Hunting conditions are a bit tougher in South Africa during the month of February, but can be just as rewarding if done right.
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can you send some pics of the 2.5-10 zeiss. I can't click on the pics to see the details. You noted some scratches. thx.
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