.470 NE versus .500 NE Felt recoil

[rookhawk]

I had a rigby in .470NE and found it to be excellent. I only shot 2 buffalo and one old elephant bull with it, but it was plenty for either species. I sold it about 10-12 years ago. My only heavy rifle these days is a model 70 in .416 Hoffman. I’d like to get another double and if I do, it’ll almost certainly be a 470.

My problem is I recently had surgery to repair a complete tear of my rotator cuff on my right shoulder, where I mount guns. Can’t shoot a rifle for 10 more months, then not sure how much recoil my re-built shoulder will be able to handle. Gonna be interesting to figure out which caliber I can shoot going forward. I hope I’m not restricted to a 375 H&H.

Your future looks designed for a 450/400NE.

 

[dougfinn]

I had a rigby in .470NE and found it to be excellent. I only shot 2 buffalo and one old elephant bull with it, but it was plenty for either species. I sold it about 10-12 years ago. My only heavy rifle these days is a model 70 in .416 Hoffman. I’d like to get another double and if I do, it’ll almost certainly be a 470.

My problem is I recently had surgery to repair a complete tear of my rotator cuff on my right shoulder, where I mount guns. Can’t shoot a rifle for 10 more months, then not sure how much recoil my re-built shoulder will be able to handle. Gonna be interesting to figure out which caliber I can shoot going forward. I hope I’m not restricted to a 375 H&H.

I had my rotator cuff fixed about 25 years ago. I was told by the surgeon that shooting wouldn’t be a problem. I shoot all sorts of Calibers including .375, 450/400 and .458 win mag. I wear a shoulder pad when I’m at the range but my shoulder has never given me any problems from shooting. Let it heal and do the rehab religiously and hopefully you’ll be ok to go.

 

[Jfet]

What a .470NE feels like

 

[Jfet]

What a 500NE feels like

 

[Jfet]

 

[DLSJR]

Rookhawk and Doug Finn; thank you both for those comments. I haven’t really had to think about heavy calibers much lately as I’ve just been rehabbing and trying to get ready for duck season.

Last year, prior to surgery, it was painful even shooting a 20 gauge. For this coming season, I’ve purchased a Beretta A400 in 28 gauge and with a rebuilt shoulder, those mallards are in trouble. Good thing is, since surgery I’ve had no pain, whereas it hurt constantly before getting it fixed.

I’m Taking my son buffalo hunting in northern Tanzania at the end of this season, now he will be the only one shooting. My next buffalo hunt looks like May of 2021.

 

[bpcr]

Dear Gentlemen,

I am going to order my first double rifle in the not too distant future. I expect to use the gun almost exclusively for cape buffalo and maybe occasionally elephant.

I had been set on the calibre of .470 Nitro Express. However I have recently read the book written by Terry Wieland on Dangerous Game Rifles and it has made me stop and think.

Mr Wielands' book appears well written to me and he makes some excellent points.

He suggests that .500 NE is actually a more preferable cartridge to .470 NE, and considering that the rifle I will be ordering is the same price in both calibres I am interested in members opinions and experiences on felt recoil.

I also and considering the availablity of .500 NE versus .470 NE if my ammo ends up in J'Burg and I (and my rifle) am in Namibia or something like that.

I am used to shooting a 9,3x62 Mauser and find the recoil perfectly acceptable but am concerned if I go 'a calibre too far' when buying what will be my only double rifle I might be inclined to wish I hadn't.

Totally undecided on this one and it will be at least until October until I have the chance to shoot either calibre as the opportunity to shoot these big bores in the UK at least if very restricted, owing to our gun laws. I won't order anything until I shoot both calibres but value all your comments and experiences.

Regards Roughshooter.

When you go to Africa you could be faced with a charge. It may be the animal you shoot, one someone else shot on another hunt and wounded or that animal could be pissed off just because you're in his neighborhood. Anything is possible in Africa.That .500 Nitro will be the best bet if you're faced with this issue .

 

[rookhawk]

I call excess recoil dwelling in ‘the stupid zone’.

I find that I can tolerate level 2 stupid in my own acts of recreational stupidity.

The chart reads left to right - caliber and load - weight of gun - felt recoil in foot pounds.

You’ll note that the absurd 4 bore with its 115gr of bluedot at 1480fps using a 2000gr bullet in a 25lb gun only puts 133lbs of felt recoil! Ironically, the .577NE and .600NE are also painfully stupid to one’s shoulder!

The “it gun” these days is the 450/400 NE for double rifles and the .404 Jeffery, its ballistic twin, in the magazine rifle configuration. 51 lbs of recoil is quite low when shot off shooting sticks, about what a 20 gauge slug or a 3.5” 12 gauge waterfowl load produces. That’s the charm... it’s only “level 1 recoil stupid” and will kill everything you wish to hunt on planet earth, but it truly is “just right” or thought as ideal for Buffalo. Because I like the push versus whack of the 470 versus the 500, and better penetration ever so slightly, and less recoil ever so slightly, I top out with my 470 on what I’m willing to shoot. Consider me “level 2 stupid” according to my shoulder!

My humorous rant was meant to illustrate just how effective of a double rifle you can obtain with how little recoil by selecting the 450-400. If you buy a modern one, get the 20 gauge barrels as well and you can shoot it a ton on clays so you can practice less with the rifle load. Off of bipod shooting sticks where you can sway, and with a good recoil pad installed, this is doable with your shoulder condition. It’s 25% more recoil than a 375h&h....you can do it!

.450/.400-3" (400 at 2150)

9.0

51.


.470 N.E. (500 at 2150)

11.0

69.


.500 N.E. (570 at 2150)

12.0

74.


.577 N.E. (750 at 2050)

12.0

127.


.600 N.E. (900 at 1950)

12.0

154.


4 Bore (2000 at 1480)

25 .0

133.

 

[Hoss Delgado]

I fired a .470 NE Double rifle in Australia in few times. It's certainly not a gun you'd want to shoot the whole day , but altogether l wouldn't say it was uncomfortable... Until my friend , Clay loaded both barrels of the gun. Apparently that gun has a nasty habit of making both barrels go off sometimes if both barrels are loaded. I didn't believe this " Hocus pocus " and so told Clay to load both barrels once. I pulled the right trigger. The gun kicked harder than a mule and l actually DID feel a lot of pain . Both barrels DID go off. After that day , whenever l fire Clay's double when l am in Australia , l do what he does : load only one chamber.
P.S : I know practically nothing about Double rifles ( l prefer bolt action, lever actions or repeaters more , as a matter of taste ) . But l understand that double discharges can happen in some rifles from time to time ? Someday , l do wanna fire the same model of double rifle which Stewart Granger had .

 

[bpcr]

When you go to Africa you could be faced with a charge. It may be the animal you shoot, one someone else shot on another hunt and wounded or that animal could be pissed off just because you're in his neighborhood. Anything is possible in Africa.That .500 Nitro will be the best bet if you're faced with this issue .

As far as recoil I shot a CZ 550 Safari Magnum in .458 Win Mag W/some hot reloads (500 grain Hornady's at 2150fps) I could shoot 10 or more as long as I held the rifle tight to my shoulder from some type of standing rest and no bench rest. The .500 is a little stouter kick but manageable with not much hurt at all to me.

 

[rafter3]

I was in your shoes last year trying to decide. Several PH’s said I should go with .470 but it was the Kreighoff rep that convinced me to go with .470. He said he could shoot the .470 all day long but several rounds from the .500 wound up giving him a bad head ache. I can tell you they both have monster recoil that is particularly hard on my neck. Make sure to have it fitted to you and practice with a shoulder pad to start off with.
I am very glad I got the .470!
Philip

Phillip is there a particular shoulder pad you recommend? I just shot my new 500 and it kicked like a mule!

 

[Philip Glass]

Phillip is there a particular shoulder pad you recommend? I just shot my new 500 and it kicked like a mule!

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[rafter3]

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Thank you sir

 

[Rare Breed]

Thank you sir

It’s what I use during practice

 

[Huvius]

The only 470 I've ever shot was a superb John Wilkes double.
It kicked quite a bit more than I expected it would being a properly built and weighted English double.
When I first shot my single shot Webley 500 (Hornady factory ammo) it was not nearly as bad as I expected and honestly not as bad as the 470 was in memory.
The chart that rookhawk posted above is good info for comparison's sake but I believe that some rifles just recoil more than others.
I had a 416 Rigby that really snapped for no apparent reason and Ruger No.1s are notoriously harsh in recoil - I know my 375 was.
I would have thought that the 416 would be right on par with the 404 and 450/400 but it was noticeably worse and in a slightly heavier rifle too.

 

[Ruraldoc]

I use the Past recoil shield for sighting in and practice with a big bore. I highly recomend it.

I also do my big bore practice and zeroing off shooting sticks.

Furthermore big bores double can be shot with handloads featuring lighter charges of faster burning powders,and in lighter guns,weight can be added to the butt stock.

All of these working together can really tame the recoil of a big bore double.

A 470 double so equiped is not really worse than my 375.