470 NE Brass Resizing Issue

[Ray B]

Not sure I'm completely understanding the issue, but it sounds like the bullets are loose in the neck. I miked the various parts and note the case walls to be : Hornady .0098; Norma .0094; . the sizer button measured .4715". Bullets: Barnes Bonded .4739, Woodleigh bonded .4740. So the necks were slightly smaller in diameter than the bullets, which showed when the bullets were seated the result was a flare of .0015" between the neck below the bullet and the portion of neck holding the bullet. If you could measure the various parts involved, you may be able to get an idea of where the problem lays.

 

[Albert GRANT]

Without an expander ball at all and no other sizing steps after FL sizing you are still loose? Without the expander in there you shouldn't be able to seat a bullet at all without damaging it. Its supposed to open the neck back up to the correct size on the way out of the case. I'd try annealing the necks and size it again without the ball and see what you get. If the brass was already hard new, it won't matter how many times it was fired, it's already too hard and it's not going to want to move correctly. It would be weird to have 2 different brands doing the same thing, but it's possible- you do have 2 different dies giving the same results.....

 

[Albert GRANT]

Yes, to get it closer to the ram. Say the ram touches the bottom now. If you turned 1/8" off (3mm) it will allow the case to go a little further into the die. Because you can screw the die down the distance that was trimmed off.

This should only affect shoulder bump, I don't believe it will have any affect on neck tension.

 

[Aussie_Hunter]

Without an expander ball at all and no other sizing steps after FL sizing you are still loose? Without the expander in there you shouldn't be able to seat a bullet at all without damaging it. Its supposed to open the neck back up to the correct size on the way out of the case. I'd try annealing the necks and size it again without the ball and see what you get. If the brass was already hard new, it won't matter how many times it was fired, it's already too hard and it's not going to want to move correctly. It would be weird to have 2 different brands doing the same thing, but it's possible- you do have 2 different dies giving the same results.....

Yep super weird.
I annealed a piece of Bertram and Norma brass, ran it through the dies with no expander in the dies, still ended up with the same result, unbelievable.
I have a set of Hornady dies on the way to me now, I have used 470NE Hornady dies in the past with perfect results so I am hoping this will be the outcome again.

 

[Aussie_Hunter]

This should only affect shoulder bump, I don't believe it will have any affect on neck tension.

Yep I believe you are correct, discussed this with my gunsmith today and he explained and said the same thing.

 

[rookhawk]

I think the idea of a Lee Crimp die (they are super cheap, like $15-$20) would be ideal no matter what the cause of the troubles. A 470NE is far too valuable to risk a seat+crimp problem ruining a round or ruining a piece of brass. Put a factory crimp on the finished rounds after loading would be my suggestion.

I haven't had this problem with 470NE but I wasted a lot of time and money screwing with 375HH while ruining brass and bullets before I gave up on the seat+crimp in a single operation and went with a Lee Crimp die.

 

[Aussie_Hunter]

My new Hornady dies turned up today, exactly the same as the set I had a few years ago, they just work! Zero effort to run both Bertram and Norma brass through them, neck ID comes out at 0.469-0.470", perfect neck tension when a bullet is seated, roll crimp works perfectly.
The Redding die is going back to the mate I borrowed it from, he is going to get a bushing made up for it so it can be used like a Redding bushing die and I'm going to try and return the CH4D dies to the place of purchase for a full refund.

 

[Albert GRANT]

Very surprising that 2 different brands had the same issue. That was all that was definitely all that was left it could be though! Hopefully they will take them back, certainly not cheap.

 

[Aussie_Hunter]

Very surprising that 2 different brands had the same issue. That was all that was definitely all that was left it could be though! Hopefully they will take them back, certainly not cheap.

Yep bit of a crazy experience but I suppose if you reload long enough and do enough of it there will be some interesting experiences along the way.

 

[Tintin]

Glad you got it sorted

 

[Rare Breed]

Yep super weird.
I annealed a piece of Bertram and Norma brass, ran it through the dies with no expander in the dies, still ended up with the same result, unbelievable.
I have a set of Hornady dies on the way to me now, I have used 470NE Hornady dies in the past with perfect results so I am hoping this will be the outcome again.

I had the exact same problem with my 500 NE. I fixed by buying a new RCBS two die set and problem solved. I fully understand your frustration!

 

[Rare Breed]

I was using Woodleigh. I had no problem with my A Frames but until I bought the new dies my Woodleigh could be hand pulled out

 

[Nevada Mike]

IF I REMEMBER CORRECTLY, Woodleigh WeldCores are about .001" under sized, AFrames are full bore diameter.

 

[Rare Breed]

Very surprising that 2 different brands had the same issue. That was all that was definitely all that was left it could be though! Hopefully they will take them back, certainly not cheap.

Actually it happens and happened to me

 

[1r4rc]

For what its worth, the Redding dies may be handy if you want to shoot light cast loads. I had to get 2 sets of 470 NE dies. I started with the Hornady dies and they are great for my serious loads (eg Barnes TSX), but I found they were too tight to take cast bullets sized .001" over (light/fun loads). After scratching my head like you but in reverse, I got a set of Redding dies. The cast bullets slipped right in. They apparently are just enough bigger to take and seat the +.001 cast bullets beautifully. So, different tools for different tasks. All the best there.