.458 winchester silk purse from a sows ear project

Hello Chris G,

I've read yiur thread with great interest, as I have a Whitworth .458 (Sorry IvW), and I respect your craftsmanship. Really like tin information and pictures on Rust Bluing. Do you have pictures of the finished rifle?
I haven't completed the stockwork yet. I am building a house currently so the Whitworth took a back seat to it. The rust blue came out everywhere but the bolt handle so it is simply in the white with a bright polish on it. The handle must've been really low carbon steel that doesn't take the blue well.
 
I haven't completed the stockwork yet. I am building a house currently so the Whitworth took a back seat to it. The rust blue came out everywhere but the bolt handle so it is simply in the white with a bright polish on it. The handle must've been really low carbon steel that doesn't take the blue well.
Must need a particular blue, as they come from factory nicely blued.
 
Must need a particular blue, as they come from factory nicely blued.
Factories hot blue their parts using a caustic nitrate bath at around 300°F. I don't have that setup ( it is wayyy too dangerous and caustic for a "home hobby"). But it does blue almost any ferrous metal. I am using the rust blue method which is a much higher end finish on gunmetal, but it can be finicky. My issue is that I hacked the bolt handle off the Whitworth and TIG welded on a turned bolt knob... likely of different metal, and it isn't taking a blue. I did about 12 coats on it and, while it will get a darker tint, it rubs right off with your fingers after a few bolt cycles.
 
Ok... so I bought a "project gun". A Whitworth Mauser .458 Win Mag. There seems to be some slight pitting on the barrel and the Tupperware stock looks to have been painted with a rattlecan. The bore apparently is mint despite all the other issues... so I m hoping for a diamond in the rough here. If I need to I will rebarrel it but I am hoping that isn't necessary.

The first order of business will be to TIG weld up the holes in the side of the rear portion of the action where the peep is installed, then sand everything back to bare metal and get as many of the pits out as possible. Then I will give it a rust blue. I typically do about 5-10 applications and carding before finally soaking for a few days in ATF. View attachment 405406View attachment 405407View attachment 405408View attachment 405409View attachment 405410

Once the rust bluing is done, I am going to send the rifle off the gentry custom and have one of their 3 position M70 styled safeties installed.

From there I will be fitting and installing an English walnut classic sporting stock from Richards Microfit Stocks. That will be finished in oil and checkered (Might go with Fleur de Lis but we will see how the mood strikes me after the stock is finished.

A set of nice steel scope bases will follow that.

I will be slicking up the action as well when it is apart.

Now... keep in mind that I am not made of money, but is there anything else anyone would suggest to give this rifle a classic big game rifle look and feel?
Only a proper sling. Your hopes are probably well-founded...it is unlikely the rifle has been fired that much--a common response to the hard kickers. Good luck and well done.
 
BTW, when low humidity occurs, the acid fume method really comes into its own. Slightly more matte in finish, but hardest wearing rust blue I have found.
 
BTW, when low humidity occurs, the acid fume method really comes into its own. Slightly more matte in finish, but hardest wearing rust blue I have found.
Thanks! I built a humidity cabinet for low humidity times. Do you just boil the rust blue in a closed evironment with the parts?
 
Only a proper sling. Your hopes are probably well-founded...it is unlikely the rifle has been fired that much--a common response to the hard kickers. Good luck and well done.
The funny thing is... I actually never use a sling. I've hung up rifles on brush trying to get the gun into gear more times than I can count. But the swing swivel on the barrel just looks amazing.
 
So it has been quite a while since I posted anything on this. I was building a house so it and associated projects took priority. Got back to finish shaping the stock this evening and though I would post an update. I tapered the front end today and started working on finishing rounding and smoothing the contours with a finer file instead of the rasp, plane and flat chisel.
.458#1.jpg
.458#2.jpg
 
Ok... so I bought a "project gun". A Whitworth Mauser .458 Win Mag. There seems to be some slight pitting on the barrel and the Tupperware stock looks to have been painted with a rattlecan. The bore apparently is mint despite all the other issues... so I m hoping for a diamond in the rough here. If I need to I will rebarrel it but I am hoping that isn't necessary.

The first order of business will be to TIG weld up the holes in the side of the rear portion of the action where the peep is installed, then sand everything back to bare metal and get as many of the pits out as possible. Then I will give it a rust blue. I typically do about 5-10 applications and carding before finally soaking for a few days in ATF. View attachment 405406View attachment 405407View attachment 405408View attachment 405409View attachment 405410

Once the rust bluing is done, I am going to send the rifle off the gentry custom and have one of their 3 position M70 styled safeties installed.

From there I will be fitting and installing an English walnut classic sporting stock from Richards Microfit Stocks. That will be finished in oil and checkered (Might go with Fleur de Lis but we will see how the mood strikes me after the stock is finished.

A set of nice steel scope bases will follow that.

I will be slicking up the action as well when it is apart.

Now... keep in mind that I am not made of money, but is there anything else anyone would suggest to give this rifle a classic big game rifle look and feel?
I just walked in the door with my 3-position Mauser 98 safety made by Parkwest (didn't they take over Dakota?). Reading the instructions, installation is hardly rocket science. I'm confident I can easily do it. $200 plus eight bucks shipping.

Maybe hold off bluing till you have the safety installed? You'd want it all to match up. Or are you thinking case hardening the shroud? By this time next month my 404 project will have the barrel on. Then the receiver will be the only thing remaining not in the white. Should be an easy job for my bluing guy to prep. I will leave the bolt, bolt handle, and cocking piece polished white.
 
So I ran a couple dummy rounds through the gun hard after I cleaned up the bolt and follower and it feeds flawlessly. So I pulled the peep off the back of it as the next step. Fortunately it wasnt seized and came right out. Word to the wise, hollow ground, flat head screw drivers of the correct size, will save you a lot of stripped or buggered up screws.View attachment 407637
As a side note, if anyone is interested in a williams micrometer peep sight for a commercial mauser, PM me I will make you a really sweet deal.
Not exaggerating when you said the synthetic stock looks like crap. Ugh!
 
I just walked in the door with my 3-position Mauser 98 safety made by Parkwest (didn't they take over Dakota?). Reading the instructions, installation is hardly rocket science. I'm confident I can easily do it. $200 plus eight bucks shipping.

Maybe hold off bluing till you have the safety installed? You'd want it all to match up. Or are you thinking case hardening the shroud? By this time next month my 404 project will have the barrel on. Then the receiver will be the only thing remaining not in the white. Should be an easy job for my bluing guy to prep. I will leave the bolt, bolt handle, and cocking piece polished white.
The bluing on this rifle is already completed and it is detailed in this thread. The process I use is acid rust blue. It is time consuming but produces a much nicer finish than a common hot blue and it is more durable. The only "downside" for most Americans is that most are used to seeing the deep blue/black of a hot caustic blue and think that it is done wrong if it doesn't look like an 1985 Remington barrel.

As to them matching, that is the beauty of a rust blue. If a part comes out lighter than the others, simply put another round of rust blue on it. I had had really good luck. As you noted, and true to some turn of the century commercial Mausers, the bolt on this rifle will also stay in the white.
 
The bluing on this rifle is already completed and it is detailed in this thread. The process I use is acid rust blue. It is time consuming but produces a much nicer finish than a common hot blue and it is more durable. The only "downside" for most Americans is that most are used to seeing the deep blue/black of a hot caustic blue and think that it is done wrong if it doesn't look like an 1985 Remington barrel.

As to them matching, that is the beauty of a rust blue. If a part comes out lighter than the others, simply put another round of rust blue on it. I had had really good luck. As you noted, and true to some turn of the century commercial Mausers, the bolt on this rifle will also stay in the white.
Two years ago I had my Springfield rust blued by a hunting guide in New Brunswick. He did a beautiful job. Couldn't beat the price. $120 ($100 US) for barrel, receiver, and bottom metal (which only had floor plate and trigger guard dolled up). And he did the rail. I also left bolt, extractor, and striker white. And I cut the knob off striker to make it pseudo Mauser (also to reach aftermarket left-hand pseudo Mauser scope safety).
20220711_202302.jpg

I installed the 3-position Parkwest side safety on Mauser last night. Only required Dremel tool with a variety of cutters, and polishing wheels. A bit of a bugger but only because the moron who welded on the bolt handle before I acquired the action warped that end of the bolt. Had to true things up. With a better bolt it would have been much easier. Installing these is not rocket science but not for faint of heart either. The old military flag safeties were bullet proof but to mount a scope puts them way up in the air. I want to be well situated on that big gun when it goes off, not up in the air hunting for crosshairs. Most aftermarket scope relief safeties are 2-position and a bugger reassembling the bolt without that safe-and-open third position. I fight it with my Springfield every time I take the bolt apart.
 
Two years ago I had my Springfield rust blued by a hunting guide in New Brunswick. He did a beautiful job. Couldn't beat the price. $120 ($100 US) for barrel, receiver, and bottom metal (which only had floor plate and trigger guard dolled up). And he did the rail. I also left bolt, extractor, and striker white. And I cut the knob off striker to make it pseudo Mauser (also to reach aftermarket left-hand pseudo Mauser scope safety).
View attachment 542285
I installed the 3-position Parkwest side safety on Mauser last night. Only required Dremel tool with a variety of cutters, and polishing wheels. A bit of a bugger but only because the moron who welded on the bolt handle before I acquired the action warped that end of the bolt. Had to true things up. With a better bolt it would have been much easier. Installing these is not rocket science but not for faint of heart either. The old military flag safeties were bullet proof but to mount a scope puts them way up in the air. I want to be well situated on that big gun when it goes off, not up in the air hunting for crosshairs. Most aftermarket scope relief safeties are 2-position and a bugger reassembling the bolt without that safe-and-open third position. I fight it with my Springfield every time I take the bolt apart.
Thats a rust blue? and he did it for $120? Thats a major steal. Thats like.... $8 an hour minus materials. probably more like $5 if you deduct the chemicals. it looks really shiny too... is it coated in a thick layer of oil?
 
Thats a rust blue? and he did it for $120? Thats a major steal. Thats like.... $8 an hour minus materials. probably more like $5 if you deduct the chemicals. it looks really shiny too... is it coated in a thick layer of oil?
It's hot oxide bluing which, as I understand it, is the same as rust bluing. He only blued receiver/barrel and trigger guard/floor plate. Not the bolt, shroud, or striker. I see he has raised his rates so I don't expect my Mauser will be as cheap. He was supposed to blue it with a batch this week but I had problems getting the new barrel to group. Finally got what I needed today. Still unclear if the problem was too much gas in the loads, holding the gun inconsistently, scope gone wonky, or new barrel break in. Three shots in lower left are 404 Jeffery with 400 gr Barnes @ 100 yards using my Springfield's 3x9 Nikon scope. First two shots through cold barrel are touching. Third drifted slightly but still sub minute of buffalo. Would have preferred more time at the range but can't waste any more components. Some 325 gr bullets shipped today but brass is nowhere to be found. The two shots above center bull are iron sights on Springfield @ 50 yards (165 gr 30-06 Hornady cup-and-core). I forgot the old 3x Weaver scope at home so checked iron sights. The Mauser will just have to go to Africa half in the white. Hope it doesn't rain. Ryan will get the gun for bluing when I return. I was stunned at the amount of recoil that heavy beast can generate. Literally stunned. "How many fingers, Pat?" "Uh ... what are fingers? What planet are we on?"
20230725_172542.jpg

20230718_174300.jpg

20230722_081141.jpg
 
It's hot oxide bluing which, as I understand it, is the same as rust bluing. He only blued receiver/barrel and trigger guard/floor plate. Not the bolt, shroud, or striker. I see he has raised his rates so I don't expect my Mauser will be as cheap. He was supposed to blue it with a batch this week but I had problems getting the new barrel to group. Finally got what I needed today. Still unclear if the problem was too much gas in the loads, holding the gun inconsistently, scope gone wonky, or new barrel break in. Three shots in lower left are 404 Jeffery with 400 gr Barnes @ 100 yards using my Springfield's 3x9 Nikon scope. First two shots through cold barrel are touching. Third drifted slightly but still sub minute of buffalo. Would have preferred more time at the range but can't waste any more components. Some 325 gr bullets shipped today but brass is nowhere to be found. The two shots above center bull are iron sights on Springfield @ 50 yards (165 gr 30-06 Hornady cup-and-core). I forgot the old 3x Weaver scope at home so checked iron sights. The Mauser will just have to go to Africa half in the white. Hope it doesn't rain. Ryan will get the gun for bluing when I return. I was stunned at the amount of recoil that heavy beast can generate. Literally stunned. "How many fingers, Pat?" "Uh ... what are fingers? What planet are we on?"
Ok ok. Hot Oxide is a different process using Nitrate salts and Sodium Hydroxide. It tends to produce that really deep blue that factory finishes have. It is still magnetite but it is all done in one go. Usually takes about an hour or so not including prep. Rust blue is a process of repeatedly rusting using rust blue solution at room temperature, steaming or boiling the rusted parts to turn the red oxide into tougher, resilient magnetite. Rinse repeat... etc. Rust blue will never produce a really glossy blued barrel, but will produce that satin finish so commonly seen on turn of the century rifles. You can easily do it at home and produce excellent, tough bluing but it is INCREDIBLY time consuming. A typical rust blue job by a gunsmith probably runs $600-$1,000 near me, whereas a hot blue can be had for around $175. I have been rust bluing project guns for around 10 years now and I really like the way it turns out... plus its cheaper than me paying someone to blue guns for me.

The .404 is known for being "softer shooting" but that's only in relation to the company it keeps. compared to a .458 Lott, it IS softer shooting, but compared to a .308 Winchester, 400 grains at 2,250fps will wake you up no matter what the headstamp says. Nice shooting though! I can't say I have ever turned in 100 yard groups like that with anything bigger than a .300 WM.

Its a beautiful rifle you have there. I did the 3-position safety with a Dremel tool too. It was a little nerve wracking because if I messed up the cocking piece on it, I couldn't easily get another. There are a lot of military 98 cocking pieces out there, but hardly any commercial Mausers and that is what the Whitworth in this thread is.
 
Ok ok. Hot Oxide is a different process using Nitrate salts and Sodium Hydroxide. It tends to produce that really deep blue that factory finishes have. It is still magnetite but it is all done in one go. Usually takes about an hour or so not including prep. Rust blue is a process of repeatedly rusting using rust blue solution at room temperature, steaming or boiling the rusted parts to turn the red oxide into tougher, resilient magnetite. Rinse repeat... etc. Rust blue will never produce a really glossy blued barrel, but will produce that satin finish so commonly seen on turn of the century rifles. You can easily do it at home and produce excellent, tough bluing but it is INCREDIBLY time consuming. A typical rust blue job by a gunsmith probably runs $600-$1,000 near me, whereas a hot blue can be had for around $175. I have been rust bluing project guns for around 10 years now and I really like the way it turns out... plus its cheaper than me paying someone to blue guns for me.

The .404 is known for being "softer shooting" but that's only in relation to the company it keeps. compared to a .458 Lott, it IS softer shooting, but compared to a .308 Winchester, 400 grains at 2,250fps will wake you up no matter what the headstamp says. Nice shooting though! I can't say I have ever turned in 100 yard groups like that with anything bigger than a .300 WM.

Its a beautiful rifle you have there. I did the 3-position safety with a Dremel tool too. It was a little nerve wracking because if I messed up the cocking piece on it, I couldn't easily get another. There are a lot of military 98 cocking pieces out there, but hardly any commercial Mausers and that is what the Whitworth in this thread is.
Thanks. I spend as little time as possible at rifle range so really have little concept of what is acceptable and what is not re groups. Still not entirely clear what MOA means. However, the previous trip to range can be seen under duct tape patches on right side of that target. I'm pretty sure that was not acceptable from the bench.

I ordered my 3-position safety from Parkwest (successor to Dakota Arms). I had trouble with the bolt shroud and cocking piece. Previous owner botched attempts at sporterizing. Overheated bolt and warped it when he welded on fancy bolt handle. It took some serious thinking outside the box to get bolt parts to line up. He also screwed up the cocking piece. Tig welded some crap on it for who knows why. You're right, lots of different cocking pieces and bolt shrouds for "98 Mauser." Also, Parkwest safety had pawl holes in safety lever drilled in wrong place. Fortunately, the gunsmith who mounted my barrel had an extra safety and he sold me the part. It is a nice addition. Critical for me as I wanted the gun to be easily switched to iron sights. Typical 2-position scope relief safeties (e.g. Buhler or Timney design) have wing sticking up unprotected when scope is removed. Gets caught on clothing or brush and inadvertently disengaged. Side safety is out of the way, scope on or off, and of course position 2 is ultra safe for loading and unloading live rounds.
 
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On to finish sanding! The recoil pad has been fitted. I am at the stage where I really just need to get the project done. So for now, the recoil pad will not be wrapped in leather. Once the basic stock shape had been established, I went out and fired a few light hand loads just because the rifle had been in pieces for 2 years and I figured the old girl needed to get outside after all that time. My 4 rounds done, I came back in, pulled the action from the stock, and started sanding.

I am sure there are quicker ways to sand a stock but I have neither the tools or the knowhow to do it that way. Going into this process, stocks have been finish shaped with rasps and files so, while the contours are there, the stock is still pretty rough. So I simply follow the process below:

1. Sand the stock to 80 grit trying to remove all the gouges from rasping and filing. During this process sanding blocks of various shapes need to be used to avoid rounding over contours and sharp lines.
458#3.jpg

458#4.jpg

2. Sand the stock progressively through 100, 150, 220, and 320 grit papers. Every time you get sanding with the next finest grit, scratches from 2 grit sizes ago will become apparent. This necessitates going back down 1 grit to smooth them, before ultimately getting the whole stock smoothed to 320 grit.

Next, I will be sanding in the oil with 400 grit paper. I am going to use Danish oil on this stock I think because it really does an excellent job and gives the sheen I am looking for.
 

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