458 Win vs 460 Weatherby

[1972RedNeck]

How much worse, if any, would a 460 Weatherby with a good muzzle brake recoil compared to a 458 Win with no brake?

I can handle a 9 pound 458 Win no problem.

Will a 12# 460 with a brake be any worse?

 

[Sarg]

Yes in more than one way !

 

[1dirthawker]

the truth is, you probably don't need more gun than the 458 win with a proper load. you could add a bit of weight to the 458 (assuming you have one) ant it is not too bad to shoot.

 

[spike.t]

What did you say?.......

 

[BourbonTrail]

I haven’t shot one, but I have watched people shoot them along side other heavy hitters like a 470 NE or 500 Mbogo. I shot those, and I passed on the Weatherby.

Most 460 Wby rifles are well under 12 lbs, and even with a brake, they are a handful. The muzzle blast is not as bad as a 50 BMG, but way worse than a 338 Lap. To put in perspective- It has more muzzle energy than a 408 Chey Tac, and people typically use 18 lb rifles with a brake for that round.

I do think a custom job in a 12 lb rifle (no brake) would be about appropriate for sporting purposes. However, it’s still going to hammer your shoulder more (90ft-lb) than a 458 Win Mag in a Model 70 (65 ft-lb).

 

[BeeMaa]

I’d take a 458WM or 458LOTT before I chose anything with a brake, regardless of the cartridge.

The damage to the hearing of those around you while hunting is REAL! You want all those people trying to protect you to have their wits about them and the concussion caused by a brake is not making it easier.

It’s my opinion that a hunter should put the practice in to become proficient enough to shoot whatever you choose without a brake. This kind of hunting is dangerous enough without purposely adding complications.

Plus, if you already know you can use a 9 lb 458WM…why would you want to punish yourself with a 460WBY?

 

[Safari Dave]

A .460 with a break definitely has less felt recoil. (I shot a friend's that was factory Mag-Na-Ported)

However, I would not recommend it AT ALL. The noise, is literally, deafening.


A .458 is all the gun you will need.

 

[Hillbilly Marine]

My limited exposure with the .460 Weatherby made me decide to look for something less painful. I was so bruised I looked like I had lost an argument with a pissed off gorilla! That rifle was a beautiful piece of steel and wood but i never took anothershot when offered. Itwas just to light.
The .458 Winchesters I have shot (1 CZ 550 and 1Winchester M70) were MUCH more comfortable.

 

[Mark A Ouellette]

How much worse, if any, would a 460 Weatherby with a good muzzle brake recoil compared to a 458 Win with no brake?

I can handle a 9 pound 458 Win no problem.

Will a 12# 460 with a brake be any worse?

Recoil will be less as others provided but...

I didn't know that anyone successfully clones the tyrannosaurus rex

 

[TTundra]

I shoot a sub 11lb 460 weatherby quite often. No brake on mine, 23" barrel.

It's well stated here and in Pierre Van Dert Walt's book the issue with the 460 weatherby is the brake.

It is not for the recoil sensitive, but in a proper fitting rifle it's an incredibly controllable and versatile cartridge.

I've shot numerous lighter caliber rifles in ill fitting stocks that I put down after 2 shots because the pain inflicted. Humorous that one was a Ruger 77 Hawkeye in 9.3x62...poor fit for me and Id gladly shoot 20 rounds of my 460 over 2 more in that rifle.

The "folklore" of the terrible 460 is relegated to the hideous brake, the mark V action, and shooters not capable of wielding the recoil.

 

[skydiver386]

Something that other have eluded to, but not said outright is that muzzle brakes redirect pressure, and this is how they reduce recoil. The same pressure that pushes on the base of the bullet to drive it out of the barrel, is the same pressure that is forced against some form of restrictor plate in the muzzle brake to push it (the muzzle brake) away from the shooter. This redirects the sound and pressure wave to the side, or possibly back towards the shooter and bystanders.

As I like to put it, muzzle brakes do a fantastic job of turning recoil into noise.

Don't get me wrong here, as i have muzzle brakes on all manner of rifles, pistols and shotguns, but those are RANGE firearms that I usually have earplugs and headphones on when shooting in competition. I NEVER have any kind of brake on a hunting gun.

Most of us here debate on how much power is needed for .458 dia 500 grain bullet to do it's job on African Dangerous Game, and 2200-2400 fps seems to be the mark. Anything beyond that doesn't seem to have any useful effect. Bullet performance and shot placement are far more important, and adding power (velocity) often has negative effects on these two factors.

The .458 Win, .458 Lott, .450 Rigby and 460 Wby are all fine cartridges. In my opinion as power level goes up, so should gun weight. In a hunting rifle, a .458 win should be 9.5 lb, a .458 Lott 10.5, a 450 Rigby 11.5, and a 460 Wby 12.5 lb. Better to add weight to the gun than add a muzzle brake.

 

[1972RedNeck]

the truth is, you probably don't need more gun than the 458 win with a proper load. you could add a bit of weight to the 458 (assuming you have one) ant it is not too bad to shoot.

I don't have a 458 Win. A couple 375 Weatherbys, but I would like to add a 458. I am looking at either a 458 Lott or 460 Weatherby.

The .458 Win, .458 Lott, .450 Rigby and 460 Wby are all fine cartridges. In my opinion as power level goes up, so should gun weight. In a hunting rifle, a .458 win should be 9.5 lb, a .458 Lott 10.5, a 450 Rigby 11.5, and a 460 Wby 12.5 lb. Better to add weight to the gun than add a muzzle brake.

If a 458 win has 65# of felt recoil and the WBY has 95# as previously posted, how much more weight does the WBY need to be equal? Is it a linear relationship? IE 9# rifle divided by 65# times 95# equals a 13.1# rifle?

 

[Mark A Ouellette]

I don't have a 458 Win. A couple 375 Weatherbys, but I would like to add a 458. I am looking at either a 458 Lott or 460 Weatherby.




If a 458 win has 65# of felt recoil and the WBY has 95# as previously posted, how much more weight does the WBY need to be equal? Is it a linear relationship? IE 9# rifle divided by 65# times 95# equals a 13.1# ri

Once again the handy Internet provides you a magic tool;
https://shooterscalculator.com/recoil-calculator.php

Plug in the factors such as bullet weight, muzzle velocity, weight of powder charge, rifle weight and "presto", it will calculate recoil energy and velocity. Do not ignore recoil velociy because it can cause a very sharp recoil into one's shoulder and face.

Here's a comparison chart I made a while ago. Breaks were not considered since I personally have no use for them in hunting. They direct too much blast (atmospheric overpressure) toward the shooter and all around.

 

[Nhoro]

I think the 460 weatherby handloaded to a usable level is great.-no brake.Full power is unpleasant. I have a 458 lott at around 10 lbs and use win mag ammo if I need to. I cannot tell the difference between a 2150 fps 450 gr and and a 2200 fps 500gr in recoil. But I have fired a 515 gr at 2350 fps and to quote a certain youtube clown, "she be kicking" velocity makes more difference to recoil than bullet weight.

 

[Green Chile]

A 458 with a premium bullet will exit most angles on a buff. A 460 with the proper bullet (otherwise it blows up) will certainly exit and to what benefit? Most of the energy is going out the other side. We don't kill with energy anyway. These aren't laser beams. We kill with blood loss, vitals destruction and skeletal structure breakdown. There isn't much benefit to all of the energy on paper increasing beyond 458 Lott levels. There are lots of downsides...noise/concussion to everyone around you, excessive recoil with no real benefits, cumulative effects of recoil (no one is exempt from that), etc. Bullet failure is much more of a problem at those velocities. It's still about bullet placement and the bullet penetrating to vitals, ideally with an exit to improve rapid blood loss.

 

[Safari Dave]

I think a .460 would be great in a heavy rifle w/o a muzzle break with BUIS.

(I would rather have it than a Lott in the same rifle.)


However the only one I've ever experienced was a 1980's era Mag-Na-Ported factory Weatherby Mark V.

(I was young and stupid, and was, actually, disappointed by the lack of recoil)



But, that much report should not be tolerated by anyone.

The lack of iron sights on the factory gun was a definite "no-go," for me on a DG rifle.

 

[Rifleman97]

IMO the only reason to go 460 weatherby is to load it down to 450 rigby velocities with significantly more readily available brass than the rigby or the lott, and have it made in a non weatherby rifle. I love their rifles but they are simply far too light weight for how heavy recoiling the 460 weatherby is. I really like the 460 in design, it's almost identical case capacity to the 450 rigby, just don't load it to such extreme pressures.

I do genuinely love how readily available and high quality the weatherby cartridge brass is. I still prefer Lapua and Peterson to norma by far, but its a big step above the winchester or starline brass, and the guys at weatherby have had every chambering well stocked for brass for a few years now. Great guys

 

[Hunter-Habib]

How much worse, if any, would a 460 Weatherby with a good muzzle brake recoil compared to a 458 Win with no brake?

I can handle a 9 pound 458 Win no problem.

Will a 12# 460 with a brake be any worse?

63 years (and counting) of hunting, firing many sporting calibers down from .700 Nitro Express….
and the .460 Weatherby Magnum is the only one in all these years, which makes me fear the recoil. To call recoil “Aggressive”, would be the understatement of the year.

It’s an absolute beast of a tool. You can’t even remotely compare the .458 Winchester Magnum with it.

Without the brake, you’re only making a bad situation worse.

Note: This only applies to commercial factory loaded .460 Weatherby Magnum ammunition. If you hand load (or employ a custom loading service), then the .460 Weatherby Magnum can be quite pleasant to shoot if you load your cartridges to achieve a velocity no higher than 2350 FPS.

 

[meigsbucks]

It’s been years since I fired a .460 Wby. That one was equipped with the Pendellton Dekicker (brake). Recoil was fierce, but not as bad as my .378 Wby without a brake.
I’ve owned two .458 Win. The first was a Ruger 77 with the tang safety. That was shootable. My current .458 Win is a Whitworth Express. It is lighter than the Ruger was, but fits better and isn’t bad to shoot. I also have a .458 Lott in a #1 that except for a hockey puck of a recoil pad, is shootable.
As others have stated, the Winchester will handle pretty much everything.If you MUST have a .460, ditch the brake, load it down and add recoil reducers to the stock.

 

[Safari Dave]

If you want a bolt-action "stopping rifle," I can't think of anything with more muzzle energy than a .460 Weatherby with readily available factory ammo.


I'm working off the "top-of my head," so please forgive me if something slips by.

I think you would have to get a .700 NE DR in order to get a somewhat normal "field carry" rifle that is more powerful.

IMO, the "perfect" .460 would be a custom CRF bolt-action that weighs about 13 pounds, has open sights, a detachable LPVO, and hold 5 rounds in the magazine and 1 in the chamber.

I don't think this unicorn exists, but if it did, I would be interested in one...


.45 caliber big game bullets have gotten so good, that (IMO) anything larger is just for s***'s & giggles at this point, anyway.