.458 Win Mag vs .470 NE

[375Fox]

I see that the .458 is probably my best bet. Do you think it will also be well suited to precise shots on Crocodiles and Hippopotamus?

Putting a scope on a 12 gauge and shooting 3.5” Turkey loads will be nearly the same recoil. Your question depends on the shooter.

 

[Green Chile]

I shoot a lot of big bores beyond the scope of this topic and I still wouldn't select anything above a 416 for precise placement such as required for croc. That's one of the most challenging shots in Africa. Last month I used a 375 with 300 TSX for exactly that. No regrets.

 

[Mark A Ouellette]

Putting a scope on a 12 gauge and shooting 3.5” Turkey loads will be nearly the same recoil. Your question depends on the shooter.

Let's not forget about the difference in muzzle velocity between a 1300 fps turkey load and a 2100 to 2400 fps for a decent dangerous game rifle.

I've shot far too many heavy 12, 10, and 8 gauge load. My 10 pound 458 Win with 2140 fps 500 gr loads compare more to my 8 gauge loads! Glad I sold off both of my 8 gauge cannons! My 10 pound 416 Rem with 2400 fps 400 gr loads is not as heavy in recoil as the 458 but the recoil is noticeably faster, or dare I say sharper! Much sharper.

I've read the hardest recoiling of all the dangerous cartridges is the 378 Weatherby. Chances are those opinions are formed by the Weatherby's excessive velocity!

 

[Flewis]

To me the 378wby pales compared to the 416 wby.

 

[375Fox]

Let's not forget about the difference in muzzle velocity between a 1300 fps turkey load and a 2100 to 2400 fps for a decent dangerous game rifle.

I've shot far too many heavy 12, 10, and 8 gauge load. My 10 pound 458 Win with 2140 fps 500 gr loads compare more to my 8 gauge loads! Glad I sold off both of my 8 gauge cannons! My 10 pound 416 Rem with 2400 fps 400 gr loads is not as heavy in recoil as the 458 but the recoil is noticeably faster, or dare I say sharper! Much sharper.

I've read the hardest recoiling of all the dangerous cartridges is the 378 Weatherby. Chances are those opinions are formed by the Weatherby's excessive velocity!

That’s an even better comparison than I was trying to make. I think too many underestimate recoil. Everyone will have a physical and a mental limit. Up to 375 I think everyone can learn to handle beyond that everyone will vary. The first time I shot my 450 Rigby I had to take Tylenol after. I put my head and neck too far forward to look down the open sights. I got the equivalent of whiplash. I learned to hold my head tighter to my body after that. That was my first experience with recoil that could actually hurt me with improper techniques.

 

[colorado]

My 500 Jeffery's recoil is but a maiden's kiss ....

 

[Green Chile]

My 500 Jeffery's recoil is but a maiden's kiss ....

a 300 pound maiden coming off the high dive

 

[Don458]

My 500 Jeffery's recoil is but a maiden's kiss ....

Is your Maiden a 18 wheel truck?

 

[PHOENIX PHIL]

My 500 Jeffery's recoil is but a maiden's kiss ....

Is you maiden named Large Marge?

 

[Flewis]

My 500 Jeffery's recoil is but a maiden's kiss ....

When I get kissed like that it better have a good ending.

 

[Nhoro]

I shoot a lot of big bores beyond the scope of this topic and I still wouldn't select anything above a 416 for precise placement such as required for croc. That's one of the most challenging shots in Africa. Last month I used a 375 with 300 TSX for exactly that. No regrets. View attachment 553502

I Would agree - but my choice for a croc would be 30-06.

 

[Tanks]

Hello all! I have just registered on this site because I have booked my first South African hunt(going for Giraffe). I have a .30-06 bolt action which my PH said is fine. However, I definitely plan on booking a Buffalo or Lion hunt in the near future. As such, I was wondering if I should buy a Winchester Model 70 Safari Express in .458 Win Mag or a Sabatti Big 5 EDL in .470 NE. Which do you think is a better choice? I would be using it for all around dangerous game, but extreme versatility is not necessary because I have a .30-06 for plains game. Any feedback is appreciated, thank you!

I have grown to love double rifles. That being said, I would either get the Model 70 or hold off (if cost is an issue) and get a bit more reputable double rifle (Heym Krieghoff, Merkel, Chapuis, Verney Carron).

I am not going to get into the caliber/recoil wars in that if one practices then the recoil becomes a non-issue. And if one does not practice then even the "rat calibers" will be too much. So, practice with whichever gun you buy. Cost of ammo is much cheaper than the cost of the trip.

 

[revturbo9967]

Another .375 vote. It will be far easier to learn to shoot, especially for croc. You will be taking that shot from prone or bench style sticks while sitting down. It will take a dedicated effort to learn to shoot a .458 prone or from the bench accurately enough for crocodile.

 

[Green Chile]

I Would agree - but my choice for a croc would be 30-06.

Not if it was a one gun hunt that included buff. 375 was perfect…and the minimum legal (or
9.3mm).

 

[Slider]

Buy a 375!!!

 

[IvW]

Neither.....
375 H&H or a 404 Jeff.....

 

[Northern Shooter]

Start at 375 and work your way up the food chain like many of us have.

 

[Forrest Halley]

We made it three pages with out it happening so:

Buy an R8 in .375 or .458 Lott. It's damned expensive, but a better rifle than either of what you're mentioning. If you're just starting in big rifles this is likely the best course. Stick to the magnum bolt face though.

I bought a .375 M70 on a whim. Very accurate and quite the large rifle. That said I mainly hunt with my overpowered single shots.

 

[Green Chile]

I just got my first R8 after years of considering one. I look forward to working with it. One suggestion is to also add the rimfire conversion kit. That investment will pay you back if you are serious to practice with it.

 

[Ruraldoc]

I just got my first R8 after years of considering one. I look forward to working with it. One suggestion is to also add the rimfire conversion kit. That investment will pay you back if you are serious to practice with it.

I just returned fom Africa and I went with my 308 and a 416 Remington. Since you already have a 30-06,I would go with a Model 70 in 375 or 416.

I have M70s in 375 and 416. I bought the 375 first and the recoil seemed to be less than a lot of 12 Gauge magnum loads that I've used. I figured that I could handle the 416. 416 recoil seems to be about the same as heavy magnum turkey loads in a light 12 gauge.

458 winchester/lott is another step up in recoil. I would probably start with the 375 and see how you do before stepping up to anything bigger.

Most people are better off hunting with a scoped bolt action so they can place their first shots correctly.

A double is a specialized tool, perfect for stopping a charge at close range,but most clients are better off with the more familiar scoped bolt action.