.458 Win Mag vs .470 NE

[OJames05]

Hello all! I have just registered on this site because I have booked my first South African hunt(going for Giraffe). I have a .30-06 bolt action which my PH said is fine. However, I definitely plan on booking a Buffalo or Lion hunt in the near future. As such, I was wondering if I should buy a Winchester Model 70 Safari Express in .458 Win Mag or a Sabatti Big 5 EDL in .470 NE. Which do you think is a better choice? I would be using it for all around dangerous game, but extreme versatility is not necessary because I have a .30-06 for plains game. Any feedback is appreciated, thank you!

 

[TOBY458]

The Winchester 70 is a much better choice for a first big bore rifle. The transition from your 30/06 will be much easier, and far less expensive. If you decide on a double in the future, it's better to go above the Sabatti in quality. Think Krieghoff, Chapuis or Heym.

 

[Mountaineer]

Buy the double. They are part of the romance of Africa.

 

[318AE]

Welcome! I hope you have a great time on your safari. It can be addicting!

The two cartridges have a common heritage - the 458 Win Mag was designed to duplicate 450 NE ballistics in a bolt gun, and the 470 was a result of British policy of not allowing it’s military bore 458 rifles in some colonies…..

I’d go with a 458 model 70. If you later change your mind or want to upgrade I’d rather try and sell a 458 model 70 than a Sabatti.

I think scopes look funny on large bore doubles - that’s just my opinion /preference. A low power scope is perfect on a 458 model 70, and will help you make some shots you can’t with an open sight double. Doubles are super cool, but they are very much a specialty implement. On one hand, that can “force” you to get closer (which I think is good); on the other hand there are opportunities you will need pass on, or miss.

 

[318AE]

Welcome! I hope you have a great time on your safari. It can be addicting!

The two cartridges have a common heritage - the 458 Win Mag was designed to duplicate 450 NE ballistics in a bolt gun, and the 470 was a result of British policy of not allowing it’s military bore 458 rifles in some colonies…..

I’d go with a 458 model 70 (if not a 375). If you later change your mind or want to upgrade I’d rather try and sell a 458 model 70 than a Sabatti.

I think scopes look funny on large bore doubles - that’s just my opinion /preference. A low power scope is perfect on a 458 model 70, and will help you make some shots you can’t with an open sight double. Doubles are super cool, but they are very much a specialty implement. On one hand, that can “force” you to get closer (which I think is good); on the other hand there are opportunities you will need pass on, or miss.

 

[TOBY458]

I just returned from Africa, where I used a 458 Win Mag and 420gr CEB Raptors on a Cape Buffalo. The first shot through his shoulder dropped him like he was struck by lightning. He never regained his feet before I put another one through him and ended him completely. Those bullets were moving along at 2250 fps from my R8. Mild recoil and perfect performance.

 

[Flewis]

A double has a pretty big learning curve to me. I have both, for me it would be the bolt gun. My double kills paper.

 

[Andrew62]

For versatility, I would buy the 458 bolt every day all day over a double.

 

[Northern Shooter]

458 WinMag.

I recently bought a new Model 70 Safari Express in 458 and it's one of my nicest rifles that I enjoy to shoot.

The Model 70 and 458 are both more affordable choices compared to a double and 470.

It will also weigh a couple pounds lighter, recoil less and have double the capacity of a 470 double.

458 is a real versatile cartridge that can be loaded down for North American game and used to it's full potential as a viable elephant cartridge.

 

[Mark A Ouellette]

Buy a Winchester in .375 H&H. In the USA they are available for $1550 via Gun Broker including sales tax and 1% Gun Broker fee to the buyer.

Once you master the 40 foot pounds recoil of the 375, step up to a double if that's your dream. A 470 Nitro has around 70 foot pounds of recoil. It is as big or bigger step in recoil from a 375 to a 470 as from a 30-06 to a 375.

Get a 458 or 470 bore rifle if you like. I have several 458's but I love my 375's and 416's.
A 375 can replace a smaller plains game rifle, drop a buffalo, and drive a bullet into an elephant's brain. Of course, well placed shots from a 416, 458, 470, 500, or cannon will drop big, dangerous critters as well and often better than a 375. The smaller 375 is just easier to master for those necessary "well placed shots". You will not regret owning a 375 H&H. Everyone needs a 375!

 

[OJames05]

Thank you all so much for the replies! I see that the .458 is probably my best bet. Do you think it will also be well suited to precise shots on Crocodiles and Hippopotamus?

 

[Hunting Hitman]

I would get the 458 Lott and be done with it. Better than the 458 Win mag and will kill everything in Africa.

HH

 

[PHOENIX PHIL]

Hello all! I have just registered on this site because I have booked my first South African hunt(going for Giraffe). I have a .30-06 bolt action which my PH said is fine. However, I definitely plan on booking a Buffalo or Lion hunt in the near future. As such, I was wondering if I should buy a Winchester Model 70 Safari Express in .458 Win Mag or a Sabatti Big 5 EDL in .470 NE. Which do you think is a better choice? I would be using it for all around dangerous game, but extreme versatility is not necessary because I have a .30-06 for plains game. Any feedback is appreciated, thank you!

Will this be your first foray into calibers bigger than a .30-06? If so, the. please let me politely suggest a .375HH. Jumping up from an -06 to either of the calibers you’ve asked about is indeed a big jump. Whereas the .375HH is a pretty easy transition and you will NOT be under gunned using the right bullets.

 

[cajunchefray]

In my hu

Thank you all so much for the replies! I see that the .458 is probably my best bet. Do you think it will also be well suited to precise shots on Crocodiles and Hippopotamus?

In my humble opinion, a. 458 Win Mag, reloaded with proper 300-350 grain bullets, will work.

Adjust powder charge with the bullet and accuracy.
.458 with 350 grain softs will play hell on Hogs.

 

[Andrew62]

458 is a real versatile cartridge that can be loaded down for North American game and used to it's full potential as a viable elephant cartridge.

My buddy took his 458 Win Mag to Africa last year, loaded it with 350 grain Barnes TSX, and he completely knocked a buffalo on its ass with one shot! That was an impressive thing to see.

 

[AimSmall]

Life is short.

Buy both.

 

[CD24]

The Winchester 70 is a much better choice for a first big bore rifle. The transition from your 30/06 will be much easier, and far less expensive. If you decide on a double in the future, it's better to go above the Sabatti in quality. Think Krieghoff, Chapuis or Heym.

Perhaps off topic but I'm interested in why Merkel didn't make the list. I prefer them to Chapuis though both seem to shoot quite well.

 

[375Fox]

Neither. Buy a 375 H&H in Model 70. Going from 30/06 to 458 or 470 is too much. You might be able to handle recoil or you might not. Everyone can learn to shoot a 375 beyond that people find their individual recoil tolerance. Stock fit is also extremely important beyond 375. A scoped 375 will do you better than either of the options you listed. If I had to pick though I’d go with the 458 in Model 70. If you spend money on a double you need to spend the money for a quality double that fits you not just the one that was most affordable. If you need or want to sell the 458 in Model 70 there are many more potential buyers and it will sell easy, but that double may be a difficult sell without a loss. Read this article. The 375 is a better fit for you.

Is Bigger Always Better?

I thought this group may enjoy this article I wrote in the latest African Gazette. A link to that particular issue (of which Divan Labuschagne, one of our great PHs, also took the cover picture): Let me know your thoughts....

www.africahunting.com

 

[375Fox]

There is also a very good series of podcasts from the Big Game Hunting Podcast with Kevin Robertson as the guest. The podcasts on African Rifles and Bullets are very good. The podcasts on hunting buffalo are very good as well. I think they’ll be a good resource for you.

 

[Badboymelvin]

I'd buy the .458 and have every confidence in it.

My Zastava with the 24" barrel is launching the 550gn Woodleigh at just under 2100fps and the Woodleigh 450gn Hydro's at spot on 2300fps...

I would would feel confident taking on anything Africa has to offer with these 2 loads...

Russ