458 win mag rifle choices CZ 550 vs Winchester 70

[35bore]

35bore told :

" I will always lean toward the CZ for a CRF rifle, ........ I owned one Winchester rifle........ then sold it for a push feed"

Why do you prefer PF than CRF ? The security is better with a CRF system no ?

bebo,

Never actually said that I prefer PF over CRF, was just answering the OP question. I feel the CZ is a much better rifle, you get a quality firearm with acuracy right out of the box. The Winchester 70 I had, I paid approx $680 for, accuracy wasnt bad, but not great. I ended up sinking another $150 into it (glass bedding and pillars) helped with accuracy some. I tried about 10 differnt types of ammo in that thing. That's when I cut my loses and traded it for a Remington 700 in the same caliber, 1st box of ammo were Core Lokt and I had a nice little cloverleaf on the target.

Likewise, the CZ 550 in 416 Rigby using Federal premium 400 bullets preformed (on paper) the same as the Remington 700, nice tight group. That's why I recomended the CZ

All that being said, you were correct in your assumption that I prefer push feed. The argument between PF vs. CRF has been argued by better and more knowledgeable men that me. I have worked a Remington 700/m-40 in all kinds of precarious rifle positions, and have never had any issues. The PF rifles (again in my opinion) can be and are just as reliable as a CRF. as long as the shooter KNOWS his rifle, which should be the case anyway. The best agrgument/discussion I have been fortunate enough to be involved in was with an older gentleman who made the statement that" the claw extractor on a model 70 is so strong, that if the case got stuck in the chamber, it would rip the headstamp off before it let go"..... My reply, "Okay so now you have a rifle you can't chamber another round into because there's a large chunk of brass in the chamber".

Again for me it's a personal choice, to others it's taboo. Whatever, regardless, so on and so forth. If the 458 wm on the Mauser action I am having is not accurate, I will be selling it and buying a CZ 550 as well.

 

[bebo]

bebo,

Never actually said that I prefer PF over CRF, was just answering the OP question. I feel the CZ is a much better rifle, you get a quality firearm with acuracy right out of the box. The Winchester 70 I had, I paid approx $680 for, accuracy wasnt bad, but not great. I ended up sinking another $150 into it (glass bedding and pillars) helped with accuracy some. I tried about 10 differnt types of ammo in that thing. That's when I cut my loses and traded it for a Remington 700 in the same caliber, 1st box of ammo were Core Lokt and I had a nice little cloverleaf on the target.

Likewise, the CZ 550 in 416 Rigby using Federal premium 400 bullets preformed (on paper) the same as the Remington 700, nice tight group. That's why I recomended the CZ

All that being said, you were correct in your assumption that I prefer push feed. The argument between PF vs. CRF has been argued by better and more knowledgeable men that me. I have worked a Remington 700/m-40 in all kinds of precarious rifle positions, and have never had any issues. The PF rifles (again in my opinion) can be and are just as reliable as a CRF. as long as the shooter KNOWS his rifle, which should be the case anyway. The best agrgument/discussion I have been fortunate enough to be involved in was with an older gentleman who made the statement that" the claw extractor on a model 70 is so strong, that if the case got stuck in the chamber, it would rip the headstamp off before it let go"..... My reply, "Okay so now you have a rifle you can't chamber another round into because there's a large chunk of brass in the chamber".

Again for me it's a personal choice, to others it's taboo. Whatever, regardless, so on and so forth. If the 458 wm on the Mauser action I am having is not accurate, I will be selling it and buying a CZ 550 as well.

Your opinion is interesting about PF vs CRF. Long time ago I 've owned a Rem 700 Safari .375 H&H never problem.

I m surprised about the accuracy of your Winch 70 , mines are perfect (the both : .375 H&H and .416 RM) .375 H&H, Leupold VX2 4-9x40 Zero @ 190 yds ++, inside 3" max .The rifle can do better, me no !!
Today I have not enough experience with the .416 RM to give a valuable opinion.

 

[enysse]

I think Phoenix Phil and sestoppelman have stated before that a lot of problems with guns and accuracy can be pinned to bad bedding of a rifle and I can't disagree. A good stock with a solid bedding helps with cycling of the action and accuracy of the barrel not influencing shots. Don't ever underestimate bad triggers too!

I honestly can only say one bad thing about one Remington 700, a BDL in a 270 Win.(it had a terrible stock, with terrible bedding). With a new gun stock, a Bell and Carson...it shot and cycled fine. Most of the push feed Remingtons I have shot are super accurate and cycle flawlessly. As a deer rifle I have no problem with a push feed gun. If I was hunting something that could stomp or eat me...I would want to make damn sure I had a gun and scope that would not let me down....and most sensible people on here would too. That is why most people hunt dangerous game with a control feed rifle or a double rifle.

 

[35bore]

I think Phoenix Phil and sestoppelman have stated before that a lot of problems with guns and accuracy can be pinned to bad bedding of a rifle and I can't disagree. A good stock with a solid bedding helps with cycling of the action and accuracy of the barrel not influencing shots. Don't ever underestimate bad triggers too!

I honestly can only say one bad thing about one Remington 700, a BDL in a 270 Win.(it had a terrible stock, with terrible bedding). With a new gun stock, a Bell and Carson...it shot and cycled fine. Most of the push feed Remingtons I have shot are super accurate and cycle flawlessly. As a deer rifle I have no problem with a push feed gun. If I was hunting something that could stomp or eat me...I would want to make damn sure I had a gun and scope that would not let me down....and most sensible people on here would too. That is why most people hunt dangerous game with a control feed rifle or a double rifle.

Again, my intention was not to turn this into a PF vs. CRF debate, not at all. I actually was just showing preference to the CZ over the Win 70 based on personal experience. (I owned all of 1 Winchester model 70) and had no luck, but a lot of frustration. I have owned 2 Ruger model 77's, (1) 375 H&H (2) 458 Win Mag, both shot better than the Winchester but not as good as the CZ. Hell, I had a double rifle BP in 50 cal that shot better than the Winchester (go figure). All of you know, or should know I am partial to the 700's so I will always stand by them regardless if it's PG or DG I have no doubts that they will preform as long as I do my part in cycling the action.

 

[PHOENIX PHIL]

Again, my intention was not to turn this into a PF vs. CRF debate, not at all. I actually was just showing preference to the CZ over the Win 70 based on personal experience. (I owned all of 1 Winchester model 70) and had no luck, but a lot of frustration. I have owned 2 Ruger model 77's, (1) 375 H&H (2) 458 Win Mag, both shot better than the Winchester but not as good as the CZ. Hell, I had a double rifle BP in 50 cal that shot better than the Winchester (go figure). All of you know, or should know I am partial to the 700's so I will always stand by them regardless if it's PG or DG I have no doubts that they will preform as long as I do my part in cycling the action.

I can't help but wonder if you got a somewhat older M70 when quality at Winchester was up and down. The rifles from the FN plan in South Carolina from my experience with a .375H&H and a .300WM are out of the box shooters. I have several loads that are MOA or better for both. That said, Winchester's bedding job from the factory is not the best. However for my .375, I truly don't care. I've done nothing to that rifle.

I've got nothing against Remington. But for your own sake, don't buy one a Walmart. I've read about all sorts of problems with them and advised a friend not to buy one. He did and was sorry. It was a 7mm Magnum that he bought for his son last Christmas. First go at the range, the rifle would not extract spent rounds. Gunsmith says the bolt was machined incorrectly.

 

[35bore]

I can't help but wonder if you got a somewhat older M70 when quality at Winchester was up and down. The rifles from the FN plan in South Carolina from my experience with a .375H&H and a .300WM are out of the box shooters. I have several loads that are MOA or better for both. That said, Winchester's bedding job from the factory is not the best. However for my .375, I truly don't care. I've done nothing to that rifle.

I've got nothing against Remington. But for your own sake, don't buy one a Walmart. I've read about all sorts of problems with them and advised a friend not to buy one. He did and was sorry. It was a 7mm Magnum that he bought for his son last Christmas. First go at the range, the rifle would not extract spent rounds. Gunsmith says the bolt was machined incorrectly.

Trust me, I DO NOT buy firearms at Wal Mart (there are too many awesome local gun shops to buy from). The model 70 was built after FN took over production. It shot decent enough (30-06) and did so about the first 3 range sessions, then accuracy went to crap. Thorough cleanings every time, changed bases, changed scopes. Figured it was either in the bedding or barrel, so I had it glass bedded with the aluminum pillars. Nothing helped, so as I previously stated I got rid of it for a 700 and sucked up my loses on the 70. That's all. Could have just been a bad apple in the bunch, but it was my bad apple and it tasted like crap.

 

[The_Wanderer]

Have you shot 458? Maybe worth considering a 375h&h... Then step up. However If you have you heart set on a458 go the m70. I own one in 375h&h and it's very well built- fit finish is better than the cz

 

[Petrus Geldenhuys]

I would go for the Winchester Mod 70 Safari Express! Awesome rifle, well balanced rifle and the action is nice and smooth. I have one in a .375 H&H and i absolutely love it.

 

[bassasdaindia]

this was a 2013 thread

 

[Slugs Away]

I'm a Big fan of zastava rifles, the price is right and they are easy to accurise.

Can the Winchester and the CZ shot .5 MOA? My zastava can.

 

[Brian Cameron]

Hi,

I'm looking for a 458 win mag bolt action rifle. This will be my first big bore file and I intend to start out with light loads and gradually work up from there. I'm an avid hand loader and will start with 45-70 type loads for practice and hunting in the US. Down the road, I'd like to also use this rifle with standard full power loads for an African safari.

I'm considering a CZ 550 or a Winchester model 70 Classic (CRF). I'm looking primarily at used rifles and I'm seeing CZ 550 is the $900-$1000 range and Winchesters in the $1400 to $1500 range (all USD).

CZ 550:
Pros: I like the weight and feel of this rifle. I've got long arms so LOP 14"+ is a definite advantage.
Cons: no barrel band sling, 25" barrel (would prefer shorter), and single recoil lug.

Win 70:
Pros: 24" barrel, barrel band sling, and two recoil lugs.
Cons: Length of pull is a little short at 13.5" and of course the higher price.

I have looked into AHR upgrades for the CZ 550 (option 2 most likley since that would get me the shorter barrel and the front sling relocated). This would increase the price to over $2,100 for the CZ 550 and hence the dillemma -- at this point which would be the better option?

Any input greatly appreciated.

The Montana Rifle Company has some good rifles for sale. Their like selling custom rifles at a working mans price range. They got some good caliber selections also.

 

[HWL]

Have you ever considered a rifle with an Imperial Mauser M98-action .....

....the original.... it will give you a good feeling!



HWL

 

[Brian Cameron]

No but I think I will after reading Mr. Don Heath's wonderful read on african rifles hunters ph's and guides. Such a good tell it like it is the way it's supposed to be done. Hats off mr Don god speed budro.

 

[colorado]

No but I think I will after reading Mr. Don Heath's wonderful read on african rifles hunters ph's and guides. Such a good tell it like it is the way it's supposed to be done. Hats off mr Don god speed budro.

That is an excellent thread. If you open your aperture to the lovely 450 Rigby, I think the CZ is a great choice. You can always load it down to 458 Lott velocities.. The CZ Custom Shop will put a barrel band on for around $100. I like AHR CZ #1 upgrade a lot too. I had it done to my 500 Jeffery.

 

[kenneth121455]

if the push feed has a shell get stuck in the chamber and the bolt is pulled back hard the extractor will pull free leaving the case stuck in the chamber. I do not like push feed when hunting dangerous game.

 

[Captain Munro]

I am in a similar sort of dilemma and am leaning toward the Model 70. I feel like the 458 Win mag should be in a Model 70. Just my opinion though.

 

[baxterb]

One thing to consider is that the CZ can have a long mag box and will allow the shorter win mag rounds to slam into the front of the box during recoil. The model 70s usually have shorter boxes. This extra mag room is what makes a win mag to Lott conversion so easy in the Cz.

 

[bebo]

.416 RM Winchester 70 Safari Express (pre 64)

 

[mark-hunter]

CZ rifles were the last magnum mauser actions in production by factory for working mans budget.
Moreover, this action is made with dove tail, double square bridge design, for installing scope, solid, robust solution.
And with magnum action, comes the capacity of magazine.

All the rest, CRF rifles, newly made by factory, on the market - cannot compare.

The first next, new, magnum mauser action, will be mauser98, by mauser. And it is high end rifle.

 

[Professor Mawla]

Currently ( 2021 ) , the Winchester Model 70 Safari Express ( manufactured in Portugal by Fabrique Nationale ) is one of the the only two control round feed action rifles in .458 Winchester Magnum which is currently being manufactured ( the other being the Zastava Model 70 , which I personally do not like so much because it’s barrel is extremely light and the stocks are prone to splitting ) . And I consider it to be one of the most dependable ( currently manufactured ) rifles in the world .

In 2019 or 2020 , CZ discontinued their 550 line of rifles . If you intend to convert your rifle into a .458 Lott , then you shall do well to search for a secondhand CZ Model 550 in .458 Winchester Magnum . If however , you are perfectly content with the .458 Winchester Magnum as is ; then I should highly recommend the Winchester Model 70 .