.458 Win Mag chronograph results

[Viral_SIGness]

Now I want beer and tomatoes, thanks!!

We have several hundred, fresh out of the garden.

 

[Forrest Halley]

Now I want beer and tomatoes, thanks!!

We aim to please! I've also got an eight month old doing circles in a walker laughing as hard as he can while crashing into everything. We're having magnum level fun over here. Maybe we can figure out the impact impulse of that...ha!

 

[machinistbutler]

We have several hundred, fresh out of the garden.

I am out in the bush, just finished work for the day, I may have a can of tomatoes in camp, but I know I have a tuborg, and a couple part bottles of scotch. Going to fuel machine up then start driving to camp, I am thirsty and hungry.

 

[Hunter-Habib]

Very educational, @Badboymelvin . If the .458 Winchester Magnum was offered with 450 - 465 grain bullets in all of it’s factory loadings when Winchester originally conceptualized the caliber ( instead of 500 grain bullets ), then the shelf life problems associated with the compressed ball powder loads would never have surfaced.

 

[Bob Nelson 35Whelen]

We have several hundred, fresh out of the garden.

@Viral_SIGness
Hopefully the vines were held up with 243 barrels.
Bob

 

[tunatoy76]

Impact Impulse, which is calculated by the speed, weight, and size of the meplat.

So energy then?

 

[Badboymelvin]

hey russ,

thanks for the info. don't let a bunch of haters get under your skin. i appreciate the work. do you know how much lead, powder and recoil you have saved me?? it is good to know what MY 458 win is capable of today, now, not 50 years ago, so....thank you.

i look forward to the new information that you post, as always, it is informative. this post started out as a private conversation but i realize that although private support on this venue is good, posting for all to read is likely better.

we as gun guys have our "pets", bob nelson is one of the best models for this, and we can get our back up if we feel that the "pet" is threatened in some way. mr bob is of course gracious and has a sense of humor and of course realizes that even his pet can be denigrated, no matter how effective it actually is.

then of course there is the mystical 458 lott, a fine caliber, that does a bit more than the 458 win. thats just fine, although all the fuss over 1-200 fps in velocity (when 500 gr bullets are already making 5,000 ft lb) seems a bit...unnecessary. the winchester was designed to duplicate the nitro express loads, turns out it did, but poorly with the tools of the time. now, it consistently does it, and the haters of the winchester for some reason feel that if they piss on the 458 win, their lott or 458 3" (which are both great cartridges) is somehow....mo bettah.

i said above that 5,000 ft lbs was a bit unnecessary, which is actually not accurate. if one is a backup on DG, then i suspect there is no such thing as too much "POWER", that said, precise shots from any large bore that will penetrate will ultimately solve the problem, not power.


so, keep up the good work and keep us in the loop here!

Thank you so much for your message - I appreciate it - and if the thread helps one person, it was worth it.
I'll keep publicly posting about load development etc... all with the intent on helping and as soon as I can get out again l will do some more work with the hydro's

Russ

 

[Bob Nelson 35Whelen]

Thank you so much for your message - I appreciate it - and if the thread helps one person, it was worth it.
I'll keep publicly posting about load development etc... all with the intent on helping and as soon as I can get out again l will do some more work with the hydro's

Russ

@Badboymelvin
Mate looking forward to seeing how the hydros perform. Are you going to test the penetration in some wet media as well. Just make sure you have a lot of it, like about 6 foot.
Bob

 

[Badboymelvin]

@Badboymelvin
Mate looking forward to seeing how the hydros perform. Are you going to test the penetration in some wet media as well. Just make sure you have a lot of it, like about 6 foot.
Bob

Hey Bob,

Yeah, I'm thinking of buying a several reams of paper and then soaking them overnight.
I'd use newspaper but I don't buy them anymore!

Yep, I reckon I'll need a bit of media as a 450gn Hydro at 2300fps will probably take a bit of stopping.
I might have to put the test media in front of a tree I reckon!

 

[Bob Nelson 35Whelen]

Hey Bob,

Yeah, I'm thinking of buying a several reams of paper and then soaking them overnight.
I'd use newspaper but I don't buy them anymore!

Yep, I reckon I'll need a bit of media as a 450gn Hydro at 2300fps will probably take a bit of stopping.
I might have to put the test media in front of a tree I reckon!

@Badboymelvin
Rus instead of buying paper go to the local newsagents and ask them for any old papers and magazines. They usually just take the front cover off for refund and toss the rest. 4 foot should be enough with a couple of sand bags behind it just in case.

 

[michael458]

Yep, I reckon I'll need a bit of media as a 450gn Hydro at 2300fps will probably take a bit of stopping.

My Wet Print medium..........Maybe save you some time and effort..............

 

[Forrest Halley]

Hey Bob,

Yeah, I'm thinking of buying a several reams of paper and then soaking them overnight.
I'd use newspaper but I don't buy them anymore!

@Badboymelvin
Rus instead of buying paper go to the local newsagents and ask them for any old papers and magazines. They usually just take the front cover off for refund and toss the rest. 4 foot should be enough with a couple of sand bags behind it just in case.

Check with your local schools as well they use tons of paper.

 

[CBH Australia]

My Wet Print medium..........Maybe save you some time and effort..............

View attachment 428327

Ohh , Bob's rough range guesstimate of 4' er 48" could be close for that 2300fps. Lucky guess I guess.

It will still be cool to see what results Russ gets.

 

[Sarg]

My Wet Print medium..........Maybe save you some time and effort..............

View attachment 428327

Thank you for your input @michael458, looks like you could load em & shoot them again .

I'm not a fan of them myself & don't see them as any wonder killer, I would only use them as a solid . .

 

[Badboymelvin]

My Wet Print medium..........Maybe save you some time and effort..............

View attachment 428327

Thank you Michael - that has just saved me a HEAP of time and effort!
That is almost the EXACT velocity I'm getting in my 458 so the results would be identical... how convenient is that

How did the hydro's stack up to the other projectiles you tested?

Loaded at a chrono'd 2300fps in my .458 is this a reliable elephant load in your opinion?

Thanks again Michael.

Russ

 

[Forrest Halley]

Thank you for your input @michael458, looks like you could load em & shoot them again .

I'm not a fan of them myself & don't see them as any wonder killer, I would only use them as a solid . .

Is there some other use for them? Do they work like a North fork CPS without the caps on at firing?

 

[Bob Nelson 35Whelen]

Thank you Michael - that has just saved me a HEAP of time and effort!
That is almost the EXACT velocity I'm getting in my 458 so the results would be identical... how convenient is that

How did the hydro's stack up to the other projectiles you tested?

Loaded at a chrono'd 2300fps in my .458 is this a reliable elephant load in your opinion?

Thanks again Michael.

Russ

@Badboymelvin
As I said mate have faith and they shall come. You just saved time and money in your testing.
Even tho threads get off track they have a habit of coming back on line with Moe than you hoped for.
That's why I like this forum you can have fun while learning heaps.
Bob

 

[michael458]

Thank you for your input @michael458, looks like you could load em & shoot them again .

I'm not a fan of them myself & don't see them as any wonder killer, I would only use them as a solid . .

Indeed, you could load them again and shoot them, I have done so on several occasions with various solids......

Thank you Michael - that has just saved me a HEAP of time and effort!
That is almost the EXACT velocity I'm getting in my 458 so the results would be identical... how convenient is that

Been there done it, and if your medium was the same, results would be the same..... Straight wet print you will dig a little deeper, but so will everything else.......

How did the hydro's stack up to the other projectiles you tested?

Loaded at a chrono'd 2300fps in my .458 is this a reliable elephant load in your opinion?

Is there some other use for them? Do they work like a North fork CPS without the caps on at firing?

The Woodleigh Hydro is a "Limited Penetration Solid".......... What that means is it is designed to inflict trauma, along with penetration. It has more surface area than what we will term as a "Super Penetrator" for lack of another description for this post. Exactly the same concept as the North Fork or other similar CPS.... "Cup Point Solid"...... When this added Surface area contacts medium, it fools the medium into thinking it is actually bigger, like a larger meplat surface. This added surface area indeed is more destructive to tissue, it appears larger, and it actually is, and displaces more material or tissue on its passage.

But, it comes at a cost, doesn't everything............ The cost is less penetration than a deep diver, or "Super Penetrator"..............

How does these type bullets stack up against the Super Penetrators?

Lets do a quick review........ Here are your Limited Penetration Solids, Hydro, North Fork and even the Newer Lehigh Extremes..........

Now, there are 3 examples of solids that are designed to cause trauma. You can see the varying surface areas on each. The Hydro and the North Fork CPS, are designed to cause trauma by having more surface area alone. The Lehigh has more surface area, but it also causes fluid to move away from center, and this causes even more extreme trauma.

The Lehigh tested was a lighter bullet, a heavier, 450 gr weight, would have probably penetrated into the low to mid 30 inch range, more surface area, and fluid moving would slow it down much quicker, even if started at higher velocity.............

The North Fork CPS has more surface area in contact with the medium, and the two bullets tested distorted slightly making the surface area larger than the Hydro as well....... In this test, the Hydro did not distort, but the nose on the Hydro would distort if contacting heavier material, such as bone.

In the case of all Limited penetration Solids, they are intended as a "First Strike Bullet"........ Very much like your traditional conventional expanding bullets. They are not intended to be deep diving Super Penetrators. They are IN BETWEEN conventional expanding or even trauma inflicting bullets and the Deep Diving Super Penetrators. They give much more penetration than the expanding or trauma inflicting bullets, but probably not as much trauma, and not as much penetration as a true deep diving Super Penetrator. They are very good choices for First Strike on buffalo in my opinion, I could not fault them, even though I personally rather have something like a Raptor, or even the Lehigh Extremes....... If I were hunting today, not retired, I would have to try the Lehighs on buffalo, they are truly extreme, more trauma than conventional expanding bullets, not quite as much as a Raptor, but dive deeper........

How do this compare against a Super Penetrator......

 

[michael458]

Loaded at a chrono'd 2300fps in my .458 is this a reliable elephant load in your opinion?

I meant to get to this question, but missed it in the previous post. Sorry....

The key word in your question, that results in this answer, is "Reliable"....... With that word added, the answer is unequivocal NO.

The reason for this No answer is; If everything was perfect for first shot, side brain, frontal brain, broadside heart, then yes, the bullet will get the job done. Its when the crap hits the fan, and you loose that perfect shot that there could be problems.

Remember above what this bullet is.... "Limited Penetration Solid"...... It is NOT a Deep Diving Super Penetrator, it has different design aspects, and is designed to be exactly what it is...... By attempting to stretch its capabilities beyond its design, we can run into problems and issues......

It is very good at what its design parameters are, it is a good performer. But I would not stretch its capabilities with elephant on the menu............

 

[Badboymelvin]

Thank you Michael

Once again your experience and advice is invaluable and I really appreciate you giving up your time to answer my questions.

Thank you