458 Lott, should I go custom??

[Honeybadger]

I want a bolt gun with some repeatable power, or better yet, a 500 nitro double!!! That's like 16k though, I can get the bolt gun for around 7k.

 

[BeeMaa]

Split the difference between $16K and $7k...$10K will get you there with a Krieghoff Classic in 500NE.
https://www.gunsinternational.com/g...-double-rifle-500ne-567-.cfm?gun_id=101084595

 

[WAB]

Yeah, probably nothing. I'd like to go shorter, like 22". But I think I'd regret it in the long run. The rifle would probably be a little faster handling, but it would definitely suffer some performance loss in terms of FPS, at least I'd think so.

I cut the bbl to 22” on my Lott. I don’t think the buffalo can tell the difference.

 

[Honeybadger]

Are those Krieghoff rifles usually available around that price?? Also, are they a good quality rifle??

 

[Honeybadger]

Those are made in my home state, only a 5 hour drive. Man, you've got me wanting to go the extra mile now, order one, and pick it up in person!!!

 

[colorado]

Here's a real nice one, unfortunately sold. These are around and usually mint and unfired being bought as collectors items. Never seen one in the flesh though.

https://www.gunauction.com/buy/7219194

 

[Starlight]

As far as I'm concerned, it's settled. I'm going with the 470 Capstick. Maximum power and shock that the 375 H&H parent case can deliver, and 5 in the magazine box!!! I can't think of a better do all heavy/dangerous game cartridge. And I can load .475 pistol bullets, and take medium game. I can't wait to order this rifle!!!

I just used Hornady Basic magnum brass, one pass through the CH4D 470 Capstick dies and it was good to go. However there should be no reason you couldn't use Lott brass.
Best of luck with it.

 

[matt85]

I just used Hornady Basic magnum brass, one pass through the CH4D 470 Capstick dies and it was good to go. However there should be no reason you couldn't use Lott brass.
Best of luck with it.

havent seen the basic magnum brass available for a while, do you have a source? that would be even easier to use then 458 lott brass!

@Honeybadger making 470 capstick from 458 lott would be pretty simple. you would need to run the brass through the expander die and finish it off by fire forming it. if you could get the above mentioned basic brass it would get rid of the fire forming step since it wouldnt come with the slight taper a 458 Lott has.

-matt

 

[2L8]

Wayne (American Hunting Rifles) has 3 Lotts on his site in the $3200-4800 ramge.

Of course you could always toss in another $1100 and get the .500 Jeffery.

http://americanhuntingrifles.com/available-now/

 

[WAB]

An option to the CZ is a M-70. The new push feed in .458 WM is in a magnum action making conversion to .458 Lott a simple and inexpensive matter. Mine is a full custom job but you can go as far as you want beyond the base conversion.

 

[WAB]

I need more coffee! I meant to type crf not push feed!!!!

 

[dchamp]

Another rifle to consider is the Blaser R8 Safari model. The R8 is a very safe and dependable platform. The barrels are interchangeable. They are accurate and hold zero. And Blaser has a range of barrels from .204 Ruger to .500 Jeffery so all you need to do is switch out barrels, bolt heads and magazines if called for. It's like having multiple rifles on one platform.

Shown with Profession Hunter stock, fire control, bolt housing, .416 Rem Mag, .458 Lott and .300 Wby barrels. Scope w/ Blaser QD mount and take down wrench.

and Kilombero wood stock

 

[Starlight]

havent seen the basic magnum brass available for a while, do you have a source? that would be even easier to use then 458 lott brass!

-matt

I was given some when I bought the 470 Capstick I owned and then lucked onto another box of 50 at the local gunshop. You are right, I haven't seen it in a while, but you might get lucky.

 

[BeeMaa]

Are those Krieghoff rifles usually available around that price?? Also, are they a good quality rifle??

Yes, it is a good brand.
It's a working double rifle in the "affordable" double rifle range.

 

[Honeybadger]

I am still considering a bolt gun from AHR for sure. But, I am leaning toward a Krieghoff now. They are made in my home state, and let's face it, double guns are awesome!!!

 

[matt85]

I am still considering a bolt gun from AHR for sure. But, I am leaning toward a Krieghoff now. They are made in my home state, and let's face it, double guns are awesome!!!

Krieghoff is based in Germany, your referring to their US based importer. if your getting one of their rifles make sure you get one without the auto safety.

-matt

 

[One Day...]

Part of me is really still considering having him do the rifle in the Jeffery, for the sheer stopping power. And with 600 grn softs and solids at 2150 fps in a 12lb rifle, I really don't think recoil would be much to even notice off hand. What do you guys think, Lott or Jeffery??

I would not exclude the .505 Gibbs in a CZ. Lower pressure. Easier to reload (longer neck). No rebated rim (more reliable feed). Can be loaded up to impressive performance.

Not sure I would go much shorter than 22" and much less than 11 lbs. Noise. Recoil - not so much as in "recoil" but as in "recovery time."

Krieghoff gets the job done, no question. Faster second shot. Slower third shot. .500 NE does everything the .470 NE does, just a bit more.

The K gun is rock solid. Mine is in .470 NE. Love it. If you look around, they pop up regularly around $10k. Here is one at https://www.gunsinternational.com/g...-double-rifle-500ne-567-.cfm?gun_id=101084595

 

[BeeMaa]

Krieghoff is based in Germany, your referring to their US based importer. if your getting one of their rifles make sure you get one without the auto safety.

-matt

Are you talking about the "Combi-Cocking Device" from Krieghoff or another type of automatic safety?

 

[One Day...]

Are you talking about the "Combi-Cocking Device" from Krieghoff or another type of automatic safety?

I was wondering exactly the same thing BeeMaa ;-)

As a Kreighoff owner allow me to share a few thoughts...

The answer is in two parts, because the cocking system acts as both a cocker/decocker and a safety:

1) It is objectively not as easy and unobtrusive to switch as a regular safety is (you need to exert a certain pressure to coil the strikers' springs), so if you are in the habit of switching automatically the safety on/off as you mount/dismount the gun to your shoulder, it is not as smooth as a traditional safety. I appreciated this smoothness on my previous double, a traditional pre-WWII Jules Burry 450 #2.

2) It is objectively immensely safer than a standard trigger-locking safety when carrying the gun, especially in single file, when muzzle discipline can be challenging, because the gun can be fully loaded while fully safe (uncocked), just as a firing pin-locking safety (e.g. Mauser or Winchester "3 positions safety," Weatherby safety, etc.) makes a bolt action as close to fully safe as possible while loaded.

Overall, I feel unquestionably safer along the hunt with this system, but I DID have to acquire a new muscle memory reflex to cock it as I mount the gun to my shoulder.

A third part to the answer - is this where matt85 was going with his remark on "auto safety"? - is to clarify that contrarily to what has been said by some, when the Kreighoff cocker has been cocked, it remains in the cocked position, even when the gun is opened and reloaded, so there is no requirement to recock the gun after it is reloaded (as, I believe, the Blaser S2 requires). Reloads are therefore entirely identical to those with traditional guns: break open, flick the empties out, drop two fresh shells, close, aim, shoot. Or if you do not need to shoot again, you can then decock any time you later want.

So, in summary: it is different; it works; like everything new, it needs to be learned; like most things new it is misunderstood and mis-characterized by some; and, in my view, it is an improvement. I never felt comfortable resting my two hands on top of the muzzles of my .450 #2 - and I always cringe when I see someone do it and trust 100% the trigger safety of their fully loaded double - but I would now feel safe resting my hands on top of my uncocked .470 ... if it was not bad muzzle safety discipline anyway ;-)

 

[BeeMaa]

I was wondering exactly the same thing BeeMaa ;-)

As a Kreighoff owner allow me to share a few thoughts...

The answer is in two parts, because the cocking system acts as both a cocker/decocker and a safety:

1) It is objectively not as easy and unobtrusive to switch as a regular safety is (you need to exert a certain pressure to coil the strikers' springs), so if you are in the habit of switching automatically the safety on/off as you mount/dismount the gun to your shoulder, it is not as smooth as a traditional safety. I appreciated this smoothness on my previous double, a traditional pre-WWII Jules Burry 450 #2.

2) It is objectively immensely safer than a standard trigger-locking safety when carrying the gun, especially in single file, when muzzle discipline can be challenging, because the gun can be fully loaded while fully safe (uncocked), just as a firing pin-locking safety (e.g. Mauser or Winchester "3 positions safety," Weatherby safety, etc.) makes a bolt action as close to fully safe as possible while loaded.

Overall, I feel unquestionably safer along the hunt with this system, but I DID have to acquire a new muscle memory reflex to cock it as I mount the gun to my shoulder.

A third part to the answer - is this where matt85 was going with his remark on "auto safety"? - is to clarify that contrarily to what has been said by some, when the Kreighoff cocker has been cocked, it remains in the cocked position, even when the gun is opened and reloaded, so there is no requirement to recock the gun after it is reloaded (as, I believe, the Blaser S2 requires). Reloads are therefore entirely identical to those with traditional guns: break open, flick the empties out, drop two fresh shells, close, aim, shoot. Or if you do not need to shoot again, you can then decock any time you later want.

So, in summary: it is different; it works; like everything new, it needs to be learned; like most things new it is misunderstood and mis-characterized by some; and, in my view, it is an improvement. I never felt comfortable resting my two hands on top of the muzzles of my .450 #2 - and I always cringe when I see someone do it and trust 100% the trigger safety of their fully loaded double - but I would now feel safe resting my hands on top of my uncocked .470 ... if it was not bad muzzle safety discipline anyway ;-)

Much appreciated.