450 or 500 grain bullet for a .458 Lott?

[SRvet]

I’m looking for information to help me choose an expanding high weight retention bullet for my .458 Lott that will give a slightly different terminal performance to the 420g CEB safari raptors where the shank of the bullet whistled through on a quartering shot without looking back. I am looking for less penetration for shooting buffalo in herd situations. Any thoughts on the 450 or 500g TSX or would I be better looking for some A frames - this may prove impossible!

 

[Aussie_Hunter]

I've always used 500 grain or 550 grain Woodleigh RNSN in 458 Lott with perfect performance

 

[Mountaineer]

I use the 400 grain Woodleigh PP. it has always worked perfectly in my 458 win mag.

 

[Hunting Hitman]

I shoot 500 grain Swift A-Frmes out of my Lott and they work perfectly. I ordered them from Pendleton Ammunition which is a site sponsor.

HH

 

[Luvthunt]

500 gr Aframes for me at 2250 fps in the Lott.

 

[Green Chile]

500 TSX in our Lotts, which is an incredible punch on DG. If we had 458 win mags, we would use the 450.

 

[Fatback]

Not sure on the Lott, but out of my 458 Win, a 450 grain Aframe did wonderfully on Cape buffalo last year. I’m sure with the higher muzzle velocity of the Lott, 500 grainers would be great.

 

[ftrovato]

You have the powder capacity to drive a 500 grain bullet in away that it will expand as designed out to 100+ yards.
Use it! The heavier the bullet the deeper it will penetrate...

I've been told the TSX have unreliable expansion in the big bores. With that and the A-Frame being an option I would and do shoot them in my 416 Rigby & 500 NE.

 

[Green Chile]

I've been told the TSX have unreliable expansion in the big bores.

Are you hearing that from the PHs? I'm hearing just the opposite and in fact, the TSX popularity seems to be growing among professionals who regularly take DG. They can't get A-frames and many have switched to TSX with no complaints.

 

[ftrovato]

Are you hearing that from the PHs? I'm hearing just the opposite and in fact, the TSX popularity seems to be growing among professionals who regularly take DG. They can't get A-frames and many have switched to TSX with no complaints.

Yes. Last Sept. in Mozambique 5 PH's highly recommended against them due to several recent cases of no expansion out of big bores. All specifically stated they acted like solids when not driven fast enough.

 

[Green Chile]

All specifically stated they acted like solids when not driven fast enough.

That is true of any bullet not driven fast enough. TSX loaded correctly do expand. I certainly wouldn't download them and expect great results. Thanks for clarifying.

 

[ftrovato]

That is true of any bullet not driven fast enough. TSX loaded correctly do expand. I certainly wouldn't download them and expect great results. Thanks for clarifying.

Let me be clear, they were not downloaded.

As each of these PH's reported they simply did not expand (in several instances) as recovered from buffalo.

Did they do their job, sure buffalo was dead. But they each asked that their hunters not use them out of big bores for buffalo when hunting with them.

For what it's worth. To each their own....Just sharing...I've used barnes on many many animals for 40+ years and think they do a great job. But I personally will not use them in my 470 or 500 now.

 

[Letzhunt]

North Fork 450 Semi Spitzer (SS). I use them out of a 458 WM+. they get great expansion and unlike A-Frames you can find them. Bonded bullets that I push as fast as you will in a Lott. You can find them at Reloading International and I believe another vendor on here picked them up as well. I would stay with 450 grain bullets because bullet technology gets you the best of both worlds now ....expansion and penetration.

 

[Nhoro]

I am using 500 gr Peregrine copper soft points and 500 gr Peregrine solids, both at 2195 fps. I have loaded Hornady DGS 500 gr and used the 480 gr DGS in win mag. My personal belief is that things tend to go wrong when you push boundaries- both upper and lower boundaries. Too fast or too slow and you can expect problems. I have seen upwards of 12 buffalo shot with A frames and I think they are probably the best hunting bullet and a copper or brass soft point may be the better followup bullet- I think they penetrate deeper with maybe a little less reliable expansion.

 

[Hunter-Habib]

500Gr Hornady DGX Bonded

 

[One Day...]

A few thoughts...

1) There is factually a growing database of successful and satisfactorily utilization of the TSX in large DG calibers. This is a fact... ​

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2) This being said, it is of bullet selection as it is of truck selection: there are diehard Chevy lovers, diehard Ford lovers, diehard Ram lovers, etc. (not to exclude the best of them all, the Toyota Land Cruiser ). We should expect that there will always be folks who distrust TSX, or distrust AFrame, or distrusts DGX Bonded, etc. This is also a fact, and so be it... And all it takes is one personal experience to develop one's own God-given Inalterable, Universal, and Exclusive Truth (you never get a second chance to make a first impression...) ​

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3) My own experience has been with all three (TSX, AFrame, DGX Bonded) and Nosler Partition before that (.375 H&H), and all four gave me entire satisfaction. My own selection criteria is now not so much about bullet performance anymore -- all "premium" bullets, monometal or bonded, work (the 300 gr NP likely remains the best .375 load for Leopard) -- as they are about commercial loaded ammo availability, consistency of zero (i.e. not changing loads constantly), and, because I live in AZ Condor country where lead ammo is restricted, lead content. To make a very long story short I now use exclusively Barnes TSX ammo in 9.3x62 (wife's), .375 and .458 (and .470 before I sold my double, although I had a pile of DGS .470 loads for practice), and Weatherby TTSX ammo in .257 and .300 Wby ​

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4) Regarding the .458 Lott, Barnes only offers the 500 gr TSX (and banded solid) in loaded ammo, so this is what I use, with entire satisfaction. Admittedly, I do not carry a caliper in the field to measure bullet expansion... ​

Nonetheless, I observe that the 500 gr .458 TSX is very long (1.663") and it digs deep into powder capacity, even in a Lott case (with a SAAMI spec relatively short throated Lott chamber). This has an impact on velocity. The Barnes ammo flies out the barrel at 2,200 fps specified (2,170 fps out of my R8 barrel), which is below the commonly expected (but rarely met, with Hornady and Federal loads being notable exceptions) 2,300 fps from a Lott

But curiously, the Swift .458 Lott 500 gr AFrame ammo (when available ) is also specified at 2,200 fps even though the bullet is significantly shorter (1.439"), so what is a man to think...

The Buffalo Bore .458 Lott load with the shorter 450 gr TSX (1.513") is specified at 2,350 fps, which would argue for the 450 gr choice, but I do not know at what pressure this load operates (Buffalo Bore loads tend to be hot...), so I do not know if we are comparing apple to oranges with the Barnes load, and whether the increased velocity is due to bullet length or load pressure...

All being said, 500 gr at 2,200 fps or 450 gr at 2,300 fps? Six of one and half a dozen of the other, whatever makes your boat float, and enjoy popcorn while the fervent partisans tear each others out

And TSX (and other monometal) or AFrame (or other bonded lead core)? Again, six of one and half a dozen of the other, whatever makes your boat float, and enjoy more popcorn while the fervent partisans tear each others out

Man it is a good time to be shooting .458's compared to the early bullets and powders...