450 NE vs 470 NE

[Petrus Geldenhuys]

Hi Guys
Im in the market for a Double and would like a bit of solid advice regarding the 450 NE.
Is this a good calibre?
What are the pros and cons?
Compared with the 470 NE?
Why is the 470 NE the preferred calibre?
Easy to find reloading components?
Recoil?

 

[enysse]

Well the 470 NE is bigger. I want to say it's easier to find ammo and components. I think for you personally you would be better off as PH to have a 470 NE.

 

[Velo Dog]

Hi Guys
Im in the market for a Double and would like a bit of solid advice regarding the 450 NE.
Is this a good calibre?
What are the pros and cons?
Compared with the 470 NE?
Why is the 470 NE the preferred calibre?
Easy to find reloading components?
Recoil?

Hello PHSC_Petrus,

Rifles and ammunition in .470 are still more common than in .450 but the .450 is gaining on it, at least in the US.
Projectiles for hand loading to fit the .450 NE are much easier to find here because they are .458 inch diameter, same as the .45-70 and .458 Winchester and .458 Lott, all three very popular cartridges here.
I cannot speak for where you live however, I do know one PH that owns a .470 (Merkel SxS) and one Kruger Park Game Ranger who owns a .450 NE (Heym SxS).
I cannot tell the difference in recoil between the two cartridges and indeed they are the same ballistically speaking.
Doubles in .470 sometimes (not always) are a bit wider at the breach because the brass is based on the .500 and therefore needs a wider chamber at the base.
Conversely, the .450 NE is pretty much a straight cartridge and the base is not much wider than the mouth/bullet end.
I am not sure why the .470 became so popular but, I suspect it is because the .450 was Rigby possession and the .470 (probably invented by Manton?) was not held as a patented possession by anyone so, all companies and Gunsmiths were making rifles for it, beginning with the British ban on .45 caliber weapons in The Sudan and India.
I prefer the .450 over the .470 but only because of the projectile availability here in The States.
A properly made .470 is plenty trim and handy in my opinion, and I would be proud to own one if I could not get the right deal in a .450.

Cheers,
Velo Dog.

 

[JTEX]

I've owned two 470's, still have a Verney/Carron..... I wish I had gone with the 450. More and easier bullet selection and a 450 with 500 grainers has a better SD for penetration. On the other hand it IS easier to find 470 ammo, and if you arrive and your ammo doesn't you have a much better chance of scrounging 470 than 450.......... My next one will be a 450.......just 'cause.....

 

[matt85]

this is easy, if you a hand loader then 450 NE but if your not a hand loader then 470 NE. not much of a different between the two cartridges performance wise. i personally prefer a .458 bullet due to availability and the ability to use the same bullets in other cartridges.

-matt

 

[peras]

of the shelf in South Africa, the 470 is easier to come by. Like earlier mentioned, balistically there is not much difference. If you reload, the 450 will give a wider bullet selection, however as a back up rifle for a PH you only need a soft and a solid. 470 Ammo is available over here in Hornady and Norma African PH.

 

[matt85]

keep in mind, in a pinch Hornady does make 450 NE 3.25" ammunition. so in the event you find yourself in Africa without ammo for you 450 double then you "should" be able to find some Hornady ammunition. i believe Kynoch also makes ammunition for this cartridge.

-matt

 

[DUGABOY1]

Both chamberings are fine, and both will handle anything you are likely to encounter. That being said, if I were suddenly faced with a concentrated charge of a Cape buffalo, or elephant, my choice between the two would be the 470NE. The FPE on impact of the 470NE’500 gr bullet is higher than the 450NE 480 gr .
For the PH in Africa, the 470NE is a better choice, because almost any camp he hunts from will usually have some 470NE ammo, while the 450NE ammo would be a rarity.
Those who state that for an American, the 450NE is much easier to find good .458 dia bullets for hand loading, and even cheap bullets for range practice, and hunting of North American game where tuff bullets are not normally needed, while one can get good bullets for a trip to Africa from folks like North Fork, and Swift to load. However those choices are also available for the 470NE as well.
I own double rifles chambered for both diameters though my doubles with .458 bore are not 450NE rifles but are 500/450 and 458 RCBS and are about the same ballistics wise, and if I were leaving today for Africa my 470NE would be in the tuff-Pak!
I say if you will do most of your hunting with your double rifle in North America, then the 450NE makes perfect sense!

 

[Petrus Geldenhuys]

Thanks for all the replies!
I reload so will not be buying off the shelf.
i think I'm set on the 450 NE, just like the fact that it is a .458 point which i can get easily in SA. now just to find the correct rifle.

 

[Velo Dog]

Thanks for all the replies!
I reload so will not be buying off the shelf.
i think I'm set on the 450 NE, just like the fact that it is a .458 point which i can get easily in SA. now just to find the correct rifle.

Heym PH Model / or 88B Model, with ejectors is my vote, regarding your search.

 

[Shakey]

I've owned two 470's, still have a Verney/Carron..... I wish I had gone with the 450. More and easier bullet selection and a 450 with 500 grainers has a better SD for penetration. On the other hand it IS easier to find 470 ammo, and if you arrive and your ammo doesn't you have a much better chance of scrounging 470 than 450.......... My next one will be a 450.......just 'cause.....

+1 ... just 'cause it was the elephant round all others were judged by. It truly is a classic caliber with a long, successful history. I have both, a .470 and a .450 3-1/4". My boys shoot the .450 (RH) and I shoot the .470 (LH). As many have stated, the choice of .458 bullets seems much more substaintial than the .474. Both will do anything you will ever need, but the .450 is a classic.

 

[rookhawk]

Hi Guys
Im in the market for a Double and would like a bit of solid advice regarding the 450 NE.
Is this a good calibre?
What are the pros and cons?
Compared with the 470 NE?
Why is the 470 NE the preferred calibre?
Easy to find reloading components?
Recoil?

Hello Petrus,

With your first and last name, I'm going to infer that you are in Africa? In Africa, 470NE is going to be the most ubiquitous, readily available ammunition and reloading components. The 450NE goes in and out of fashion and they made fewer of them and then many of them were destroyed when the British ruled .45 calibers illegal as the colonies were getting restless. As a result, Joseph Lang created the 470NE while enforcing now patent or royalty rights and it took off with all the makers.

One last benefit is that with the other Nitro calibers you really "never know what you're looking at" in Africa when someone offers you some old dodgy ammo for target practice. Most of the Nitro Express calibers had iterations from black powder express (BPE) to Nitro-For-Black (NFB) loadings and then even proprietary or odd regulations of lighter bullets and other such nonsense before going to full Nitro Express standards. Add to that, different makers had different case lengths so its a hodge-podge of variability. Not so with the 470NE. Any 470 ammunition loaded from the day it was invented until now is the same .470NE 3-1/4" case at full Nitro service pressures. Virtually all loadings were for the 500gr bullet. Bottom line, if you need ever see factory 470 ammo in Africa there is a pretty good chance you can shoot it without destroying your gun or injuring yourself.

Lastly, the 470NE just has all the right stuff. Relatively manageable recoil, easy feeding case geometry, abundant components, many factory loads, and excellent penetration.

 

[Tanks]

As a reloader you will be able to find brass easier for the .470.

Here in the USA there is no brass available for the .450. I actually bought a couple of cases of ammo so I could use the brass for reloading. A dealer has had a standing order for me with Hornady for brass since June, still not available.

In regards to the two calibers, they are two peas in a pod. No negligible differences in ballistics.

 

[lwaters]

Could you run 450/400 brass though a 450 die and use that? The rim and length may be a problem.

 

[gillettehunter]

This thread was started over 6 yrs ago. Probably sorted out by now.
Bruce

 

[Dewald]

Both Bertram and Hornady are available in .450NE in South Africa. If you scratch around the right places, there are still good numbers of Hornerber, Bell and locally made Stewart brass floating under the radar

 

[IvW]

Could you run 450/400 brass though a 450 die and use that? The rim and length may be a problem.

No