.45 Super

[ChrisG]

Do folks reckon the .45 SMC is worth going up to?

.45 super brass can be loaded up to .450 SMC with a fully supported barrel and comp. I have a ported barrel on mine (see pick above) and easily pushed 1,325 fps with cast bullets which is right in .450 SMC territory. The SMC is basically just a .45 super+p. And the .460 Rowland is a .450 SMC+p. Since .45 super brass is made to .460 Rowland specs, I don't see the need for the SMC. you will however, probably need a compensated barrel to slow the slide down at those power levels.

 

[Wyatt Smith]

Darn, mine has the unsupported chamber, I guess I will sticking with 45 acp for now

 

[Scrumbag]

.45 super brass can be loaded up to .450 SMC with a fully supported barrel and comp. I have a ported barrel on mine (see pick above) and easily pushed 1,325 fps with cast bullets which is right in .450 SMC territory. The SMC is basically just a .45 super+p. And the .460 Rowland is a .450 SMC+p. Since .45 super brass is made to .460 Rowland specs, I don't see the need for the SMC. you will however, probably need a compensated barrel to slow the slide down at those power levels.

Understood

 

[Scrumbag]

Darn, mine has the unsupported chamber, I guess I will sticking with 45 acp for now

How easy is a barrel swap?

 

[Spooksar]

How easy is a barrel swap?

Really easy buy a drop in barrel and drop it in, most good barrels don’t need a lot of fitting. My 460 Rowland was just a drop in.

 

[ChrisG]

Really easy buy a drop in barrel and drop it in, most good barrels don’t need a lot of fitting. My 460 Rowland was just a drop in.

Not the case with a 1911 unfortunately.... The frame will need to be milled to accept the ramp, then have the bearing surfaces stoned to fit tight, ream the barrel bushing to fit the new barrel (usually needs a new bushing) and finally new link pin and little fit and finish stuff... not as easy as a springfield XD or Glock (The easiest conversion). Not impossible, but not simple either.

 

[Spooksar]

Not the case with a 1911 unfortunately.... The frame will need to be milled to accept the ramp, then have the bearing surfaces stoned to fit tight, ream the barrel bushing to fit the new barrel (usually needs a new bushing) and finally new link pin and little fit and finish stuff... not as easy as a springfield XD or Glock (The easiest conversion). Not impossible, but not simple either.

My Rowland was in 1911, but your right the frame was already milled. And it came with the bushing/compensater installed as a unit.

 

[Paul Homsy]

Alliant CFE Pistol and Hodgdon Power Pistol are two of the best powders for the 45 Super depending on bullet weight.

Because that gun isn't generally ported, loads have to be somewhat conservative. A good source to load DOWN from is the 460 Rowland. The 460 Rowland is equipped with a very efficient muzzle brake and its loads are too powerful for the 45 Super, however they can be used with a few grains LESS of powder. The Rowland has a longer case to prevent its chambering in a regular .45 Auto but the same overall length as a .45 Auto. The cases are built specifically to accept pressures of 39,000 psi, considerably more than the standard .45 auto built for 19,000 psi.
The .45 + P operates at 23,000 psi and can be shot in some regular .45 auto guns with the addition of a stronger recoil spring.
The 45 Super operates at 28,000 psi and requires (it is wise) to use a stronger recoil spring with a buffer as well as stronger magazine springs.
All these more powerful loads than the standard .45 auto can only be shot in firearm frames that can sustain the pounding. Do your homework. Not all .45 autos can be pushed.

The 460 Rowland, although not the topic, requires a full conversion barrel with a fully supported chamber (as well as this can possibly be done in a semi auto) equipped with a muzzle brake. Fully supported chamber barrels can be obtained as after market additions from several manufacturers and are a safe way to go. Please see below.

The 45 Super can be used in any .45 Auto that has a fully supported chamber and that has a strong frame and with the modifications I mentioned above which are the minimum. More can be done.

IF YOU DECIDE TO RELOAD 45 SUPER !! It is essential that you buy 45 SUPER brass. DO NOT use regular .45 Auto brass. 45 Super brass is as strong as the 460 Rowland brass but is shorter and identical on the exterior to the regular .45 Auto. It is very easy to mix up. Be extra careful. DO NOT shoot a 45 Super round in a regular .45 Auto that has not been modified. The clear advantage of the 460 Rowland as I already mention above is that it does not chamber in a regular .45 Auto and is much more powerful than the 45 Super. It can only be shot in an especially made barrel and set up.

There are boutique ammunition manufacturers such as Underwood Ammo and Buffalo Bore to name a couple who manufacture ready to use excellent 45 Super rounds. FOLLOW THEIR RECOMMENDATIONS CAREFULLY.

 

[colorado]

I bought my Springfield V16 in 45 Super when it first came out. Cost $1100, seemed like a lot of money but I wanted it bad. Never been disappointed. I used to handload for it, but don't anymore. The only ammo I shoot in 45 Super is the Buffalo Bore 255g hardcast, but I practice with bulk Remington 45 ACP 230g hardball. It kicks about like an M9 with the buffalo bore ammo, not at all with 45 ACP. It's accurate and a lot easier to carry then a 44 Mag revolver... Never selling it.

 

[Red Leg]

Just did my first load testing, here's what I arrived at:

New Starline. 45 Super brass
CCI large pistol primer
7.1 grains Alliant Power Pistol (.45ACP+P load for a 240 grain Nosler HC) WORK UP TO THIS LOAD!!!
.452 250 grain LRNFP

Fired through a Springfield XD 5" .45 ACP with a fully supported chamber and a 20 lb Wolff Recoil spring and solid steel guide rod (for weight for shift POI)

I will be carrying this while bear hunting this fall in case I have to go root a wounded bear out of thick honeysuckle. Haven't had to do it yet, and Lord willing, I will never have to, but an easy to manuever semi auto works a lot better than a 9lb 38" .375 H&H in thick stuff. And a heckuva lot better if the bear ends up on top of you.


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Theoretically a useful handgun. However, if I have to go dig out one of my bears out of truly thick stuff (not yet been an issue) it will be the same technique I would use following up a cape buffalo. I would dismount my scope and use my primary rifle with open sights. Their is no comparison between a handgun round and an adequate rifle for stopping something inbound. I have never seen a tangle so thick that I couldn't enter without an adequate rifle.

Were I fly fishing or Kayaking that is a different story. Though my primary concern would be bipeds rather than fending off bears (in which case spray would be my primary "weapon.") But follow up? I am using a rifle with adequate power.

 

[Paul Homsy]

I bought my Springfield V16 in 45 Super when it first came out. Cost $1100, seemed like a lot of money but I wanted it bad. Never been disappointed. I used to handload for it, but don't anymore. The only ammo I shoot in 45 Super is the Buffalo Bore 255g hardcast, but I practice with bulk Remington 45 ACP 230g hardball. It kicks about like an M9 with the buffalo bore ammo, not at all with 45 ACP. It's accurate and a lot easier to carry then a 44 Mag revolver... Never selling it.

That 255 gr hardcast is the ticket.

 

[Paul Homsy]

Theoretically a useful handgun. However, if I have to go dig out one of my bears out of truly thick stuff (not yet been an issue) it will be the same technique I would use following up a cape buffalo. I would dismount my scope and use my primary rifle with open sights. Their is no comparison between a handgun round and an adequate rifle for stopping something inbound. I have never seen a tangle so thick that I couldn't enter without an adequate rifle.

Were I fly fishing or Kayaking that is a different story. Though my primary concern would be bipeds rather than fending off bears (in which case spray would be my primary "weapon.") But follow up? I am using a rifle with adequate power.

A rifle is always better, no question about that. I consider a sidearm to be a backup always worn on my person, not a primary unless I have no choice.

 

[colorado]

Agree

A rifle is always better, no question about that. I consider a sidearm to be a backup always worn on my person, not a primary unless I have no choice.

Totally agree, but I've been in a few situations where my rifle was 3feet away in camp (glassing the far shore leaning on a inflatable raft with scope covers on in the rain) or 50 feet away when fly fishing on the South Fork of the FlatHead river in the Bob Marshal. Both times I had grizzly encounters. Both times I succeeded in talking the grizzly out of my area. I carry the 45 Super now in bear country. I would still try talking them out of attacking, but nice to know I have some defence.

 

[crs]

WRT hand gun protection from beasts of the weeds or of other kinds, I will stick with my 4 inch .44 Magnum. There have been occasions that I saw the undesirables checking out the big boomer I wore while doing camp chores or fly casting and they always pass on by. My wife wears a similar rig in camp for her pistol--too big to hide and no intent to do so.

 

[RTG]

Hi all,

I have converted my Springfield XD 5" .45 ACP to shoot .45 super. This is the gun that is going to be in my chest holster for following up Black Bear. What I can't find is much load data for the round. Does anyone load a 250 grain bullet in this cartridge and what powders do you recommend. Currently I have Blue Dot and a little bit of Power pistol. Should I be looking for faster powders?

I use Underwood .45 Super ammo in a HK MK23. They are incredibly consistant, like within 5-10fps deviation. The plan is for a 255gr hard cast to a deer’s brain or chest when they eat yummy grass around my house. Too many guns on the ‘deer up close’ list however, haven’t used 45 Super on a critter yet

Sectional density of these rounds sucks but .45acp and .45colt penetration on humans is legendary. Should do the trick on 150-250 pound deer at rock throwing range.

Shop Ammo - Handgun Ammo - Page 1 - Underwood Ammo

underwoodammo.com

 

[Paul Homsy]

Agree

Totally agree, but I've been in a few situations where my rifle was 3feet away in camp (glassing the far shore leaning on a inflatable raft with scope covers on in the rain) or 50 feet away when fly fishing on the South Fork of the FlatHead river in the Bob Marshal. Both times I had grizzly encounters. Both times I succeeded in talking the grizzly out of my area. I carry the 45 Super now in bear country. I would still try talking them out of attacking, but nice to know I have some defence.

We're in total agreement. It's exactly why I carry a sidearm while hunting, camping or fishing which I no longer do much, I used to fly flish. The fact that a rifle is at times out of immediate range makes a sidearm invaluable regardless of its lesser power. Shoot what you have but at least have something...

 

[Paul Homsy]

I use Underwood .45 Super ammo in a HK MK23. They are incredibly consistant, like within 5-10fps deviation. The plan is for a 255gr hard cast to a deer’s brain or chest when they eat yummy grass around my house. Too many guns on the ‘deer up close’ list however, haven’t used 45 Super on a critter yet

Sectional density of these rounds sucks but .45acp and .45colt penetration on humans is legendary. Should do the trick on 150-250 pound deer at rock throwing range.

Shop Ammo - Handgun Ammo - Page 1 - Underwood Ammo

underwoodammo.com

I agree, it's excellent ammo but for handgun rounds it isn't that bad as far as sectional density is concerned. In the 10 mm, the highest SD is offered in the 220 grains hard cast, its equivalent in .45 would be a 280 grains bullet but the 255 grains .45 compensates with mass and in those loads it isn't a slouch.

 

[igotit]

Never had a .45 super before…. Are they anything like 10mm or 9?

 

[Paul Homsy]

Never had a .45 super before…. Are they anything like 10mm or 9?

Much more than 9mm, close to 10 mm. The 460 Rowland is superior to the 10mm.

 

[Bigfoot Hunter]

I love all .45 caliber rounds but .45 super doesn’t do anything 10mm doesn’t do better.