45 Nosler wildcat

[1972RedNeck]

Has anyone necked a Nosler cartridge up to 458? Thinking you could equal a 458 Lott in a 30-06 length action with a standard magnum bolt face...

 

[PerH]

Since based off .404 J , it would be similar to .460 Guns&Ammo , but updated specs

 

[Nevada Mike]

Isn''t the 450 African a 404 necked up to .45 caliber?

 

[1972RedNeck]

Isn''t the 450 African a 404 necked up to .45 caliber?

I have no idea

 

[PerH]

Yes it’s off a slightly shortened and improved .404 case , the African one is . And it can cut a .458 win chamber quite easy also .


And .460 G&A of which St Cooper ‘ Baby and his Kimber Crusher was chambered in them also .

 

[1972RedNeck]

Yes it’s off a slightly shortened and improved .404 case , the African one is . And it can cut a .458 win chamber quite easy also .


And .460 G&A of which St Cooper ‘ Baby and his Kimber Crusher was chambered in them also .

Still requires a magnum length action? 45 Nosler would fit an 06 action...

 

[PerH]

Thread 'Wanted Die Set For The 458 African Cartridge'

Feb 12, 2024

Looking for a set of dies - this is somewhat confusing but this is the cartridge based on the 404 J case. Thank you for any help with this.

• SkullKeeper
• Replies: 22
• Forum: Classifieds

• 

Here is one post from last year about the African and with its measures also

 

[Riflecrank]

I have a .458/.416 Ruger wildcat done to clean up a "ringed chamber" on a Whitworth .458 WIN MAG with standard 3.4" magazine/action length.
Nice cartridge with a shoulder better than a 400 Whelen,
which is a totally functional shoulder.

Great advantage is no barrel setback and you get the remnant SAAMI .458 WIN MAG throat beyond 2.580" from breech face.
It will beat a SAAMI .458 Lott performance for sure.

No rebated rim on my wildcat.
Anybody else tried a .458/.416 Ruger ?

But it does require new Mauser bottom metal to get 3 down in mag box. Sunny Hill drop box is 3.47" inside length.
Not so if using a Ruger Hawkeye for .416 Ruger or .375 Ruger to start with,
and Alaska Arms makes drop floor plates for 4 + 1 in those.

Just run a .375 Ruger or .416 Ruger
finish reamer with proper pilot into the .458 WIN MAG chamber,
.375 Ruger head space gages used.

Handloading die set is so far by me just using .416 Ruger dies and a separate neck expander, and a make-do roll crimp with a .458 SOCOM that works like a charm,
just barely.

A LEE Factory Crimp die made for it is all I need.
But a complete custom handloading set would save some working of neck brass and decrease need for annealing.

 

[Riflecrank]

Video linked by PerH above,
Host said the 460 G&A was pushing 400-gr bullets down the barrel.
Such a "Heavy Rifle" for Africa not using 500-gr bullets ?
Did he misspeak or were he and Colonel Cooper ahead of their time ?

 

[Riflecrank]

I thought I might have once visited Gunsmoke Guns in Denver.
I googled it.
Long since closed.
Host of video above lost his FFL in 2012.
He then used "straw FFLs" to do background checks and close the deals.
Eventually he went to prison in 2018 for doing that, and evading taxes on over a million bucks of income.
Col. Cooper must have done some situps and pushups in his grave over that.

Another sad thing was having to turn this factory Whitworth .458 WIN MAG into a .458 WIN Ruger:

 

[Riflecrank]

Don't like the awkward naming of that wildcat ?
Call it the .458 PRC:

 

[Riflecrank]

Standup comedy routine or highjack that may eventually return to pertinence to "45 Nosler."
Michael458 has a .458 B&M EX that is done on a 2.5" (or longer ? ) RUM case, pretty much like a "45 Nosler."
His .458 B&M is done on a 2.24" WSM case.

His 404-gr Stone Hammer load was 2608 fps MV from his rifle.
I do believe I could do that with a 24" barrel on a .458 WIN RUGER.

The Speer 400-grainer is a nice fire-forming and practice bullet.

 

[Riflecrank]

A 45 Nosler would be great in a Winchester M70 Classic RUM action.
Windowed +3.6"-long box would be perfect for three down with 45 Nosler.
Speaking of windowed boxes, here is a most extreme example of that:

Compared quite favorably according to Phil, near identical in weight and handling.

As for my Mauser .458/.416 Ruger ...

... I may do something like done to this FN M98:

Too bad I was not forced to do the .458/.416 Ruger on a Hawkeye, easy 3 +1 ...

... I could've had a 4 + 1 .458/.416 Ruger by simply using the Alaska Arms coffin plate.

 

[PerH]

A 45 Nosler would be great in a Winchester M70 Classic RUM action.
Windowed +3.6"-long box would be perfect for three down with 45 Nosler.
Speaking of windowed boxes, here is a most extreme example of that:

View attachment 706718

View attachment 706719

View attachment 706720
Compared quite favorably according to Phil, near identical in weight and handling.

As for my Mauser .458/.416 Ruger ...

View attachment 706721
... I may do something like done to this FN M98:

View attachment 706722
Too bad I was not forced to do the .458/.416 Ruger on a Hawkeye, easy 3 +1 ...

View attachment 706723
... I could've had a 4 + 1 .458/.416 Ruger by simply using the Alaska Arms coffin plate.

The Kimber Crusher is at the center where Cooper got the rifle built at G.S in Sconce armory . Think the guy only borrowed it for a few moments .

I remember those series with that guy ,they were not good .

 

[RR 314]

A 45 Nosler would be great in a Winchester M70 Classic RUM action.
Windowed +3.6"-long box would be perfect for three down with 45 Nosler.
Speaking of windowed boxes, here is a most extreme example of that:

View attachment 706718

View attachment 706719

View attachment 706720
Compared quite favorably according to Phil, near identical in weight and handling.

As for my Mauser .458/.416 Ruger ...

View attachment 706721
... I may do something like done to this FN M98:

View attachment 706722
Too bad I was not forced to do the .458/.416 Ruger on a Hawkeye, easy 3 +1 ...

View attachment 706723
... I could've had a 4 + 1 .458/.416 Ruger by simply using the Alaska Arms coffin plate.

Did you buy Phil's .404? I was going back and forth with someone (I believe in California) who bought it from Phil. Price was amazingly reasonable, but I wanted to make it out to see in person as it seemingly pre-dated production.

 

[Riflecrank]

No, not my purchase.
Do not be suspicious of the dates.
That was advertised in the 1905 Jeffery catalog, IIRC.
The 404 Jeffery actually dates to 1904, probably why it was named the 404,
a +40-bore of '04.
Lots of gunrag writers get the dates wrong on this and many other things.

 

[Riflecrank]

Note Jeffery was advertising both 2200 fps and 2400 fps loads from their 24" barrel, early on.
See discussion of this in "Description" section:

 

[Riflecrank]

The 404 Jeffery was the first-ever, fully competent DGR magazine repeater in 1904.
Thank you W. Jackman Jeffery.

The single-shot Farquharson 400 S. Jeffery of 1897 was the first-ever Nitro Express cartridge, later named the 450/400 NE 3". That development just required some new brass cases of greater strength for full Cordite loads, which John Rigby was already working on. Industrial espionage by Jackman ?
The old-steel barrel of heavier contour on a single-shot rifle was strong enough.

After four sets of old-steel barrels failed in the DR proof trials early in 1897, on the fifth try
the 450 S. Rigby was the first ever double rifle to survive proof in November 1897,
later to be called the 450 NE 3-1/4".
It is the Granddaddy of all subsequent Nitro Express double rifles.
That required development of a new crucible steel as well as the new brass cases.
Thank you John Rigby.

 

[RR 314]

No, not my purchase.
Do not be suspicious of the dates.
That was advertised in the 1905 Jeffery catalog, IIRC.
The 404 Jeffery actually dates to 1904, probably why it was named the 404,
a +40-bore of '04.
Lots of gunrag writers get the dates wrong on this and many other things.

Yes sir. You are correct. I think he described it as 1902/3. There was something odd about it. He had it listed during early COVID and only had it a couple years from Phil. Let me see if I can find correspondence when I get a chance.

 

[Riflecrank]

Well, Phil is a gunrag writer too, as well as many other things ...