.45-70 for Elephant

[CoElkHunter]

One of the famous conservationists, whether is was Kevin Robertson, Ivan Carter or another one had a story about a poacher that had developed the skill to put a .22 short into an artery just behind the front leg of an elephant as it took a step. The artery was just under the skin as a .22 cant reach anything vital in an animal the size of an elephant. Anyway, they would then follow the elephant, which probably didnt even realize it was wounded, until it passed out and died of blood loss. Yet another example of "better than a pointy stick", but not by much.

People often point to WDM bell and incorrectly assume that he stopped charges with a 6.5 MS. Fortunately he wasnt stupid. He didnt use the 6.5 because he thought it was the best elephant gun, he used it because he was in the ivory business and he was minimizing his business overhead. Even then, a double rifle cost probably 10-20x what a bolt action MS rifle cost and the ammunition was plentiful and cheap unlike .416 Rigby ammo. He also owned big bore and medium bore rifles. And I think people underestimate his superhuman offhand marksmanship skills and his ice cool temperment in an elephant herd. There is the story of him sending some water thieves into the hills by shooting one of their shovel handles in half and keeping them running by skipping bullets around their feet, all without hitting them, out past a few hundred yards... with a mauser broomhandle pistol.

Lets keep WDM Bell out of the .45-70 for elephant argument, because no one today has the life experience or lived in the same Africa he did. He isnt a good example any more than superman is a good example of not needing hydraulics.

I love the story here of shooting at water thieves. I often thought about shooting at the ground near beer thieves, but most were friends/acquaintances and they might shoot back. I have an old cooler that creaks real loud when someone opens it, so that kinda preempts having to resort to wasting precious bullets.

 

[CoElkHunter]

@CoElkHunter
@bit of shit and a bit of board and you can have a ford
Found
On
Rubbish
Dump.
Ford's is in the same class as the 243. No real practical use..
As for chipping it the best chip for i t is a metal shredder and turn it into chips that can be melted to be used to m a ke REAL cars.
Bob

GMC. "Get a mechanic coming!"

 

[crs]

Thank you Leslie, for reminding us that the rifle bullet does the killing, not the type action or name of the manufacturer.

 

[ChrisG]

rings are ruger extension rings and i need them as i hate to do the stock craw. the HODGDON reloading manual lists 45-70 lever action with 24" barrel and 400 gr bullet with 50.5 grs H-4198 at 2002 fps with 39,400 CUP, ruger #1 with 24" barrel load 400 gr bullet at 2108 fps with 53 grs H-4198 with 49,100 CUP. picture ruger #3 with the load listed for the marlin 95 lever action, with the shorter barrel on the #3 i get a little less than 2002 fps.

I apologize Leslie, I see where hodgdon is listing a 400 grain bullet from a modern rifle (no.1) at a max charge of 4198 at 2089 fps. I must have been looking at starting loads. I still hold however that its penetrative capabilities will not be as effective as a .40, .41 or .43 rifle slinging a 400 grain bullet at the same speed. And since most .416s can shoot a 450 grain bullet well over 2000 fps, that would make them better still and unparalleled in their penetrating ability. But you are correct. It does appear a modern loaded .45-70 in a strong modern action can nip at the heels of 2,100fps with a 400 grain lead core bullet. I still don't think you will get there at those pressures with a monometal due to the fact that it will be the same length as a 450 or 500 grain lead core bullet.

 

[leslie hetrick]

ChrisG, no problem. the 45-70 would not be my first choice rifle to shoot a elephant. but with a proper back up rifle in the hands of a PH i don,t see why not. i had a chance to shoot a elephant, but declinded.