45-70 dangerous game?

[Flbt]

It all depends on the bullet and how much velocity can you get. I load for a friend’s 450 NE double. He has a shoulder injury and can’t take full recoil. For his softs I load 295gr. Cutting edge safari raptors, and for solids I use 325gr. Safari solids at 2150 fps. To date he has killed 4 Cape buffalo and a 60 lb. Elephant. If you’re 45-70 is strong enough for that bullet and velocity, then I seriously doubt the animal will react any differently because of the case you used. By the way, there was no tracking required for any of these animals. With this type of bullet, sectional density means nothing. And don’t let anyone tell you otherwise.

The only real world dg that I could see me using it on would be a ranch water buff.
I have a buddy that’s trying to talk me into going to a game ranch with him.
I really don’t know if I will do it. For now the problem of not walking very well
Would limit me to shooting off a swamp buggy or blind.
I don’t know about hunting a water buff like that.

 

[Tundra Tiger]

For everyone who is saying definitively "no"... how many buffalo (or other large game) have you killed with a .45-70?

@Lance Hopper ... the 325 grain Cutting Edge bullets are what I used on my two buffalo - really good penetration on both.

 

[Safari Dave]

.45-70 - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

1,189 to 3,489 depending on loading...

I don't understand why someone would want to travel 2,000 miles to shoot at something with a 150 year old cartridge, just because they can.

I think the animal deserves better.

 

[JimP]

I think that with the proper bullet and load the old 46-70 would be perfectly fine on a DG hunt.

It would be no different than those who choose to use a pistol, and I believe that it would be a lot more effective.

There are those on here that believe that nothing smaller than a 20mm cannon should be used. But if you know the capabilities and wait for that perfect broadside shot it should work quite well.

 

[dogcat1]

No. Not enough gun. It is fun for "wannabee's" but not anyone with a centigram of sense would use it on DG. It is an outdated, under powered caliber that has no real place for hunters in 2025 or 1980 for that matter.

Why use an inferior product when pursuing your dream hunt? Makes no sense.

 

[dogcat1]

I talked to Craig Boddington about this very question. I was considering taking a Ruger No 1 for Cape Buffalo. I had worked up a load with 500 gr Hornadys and its ballistics were not far off a 458 Win Mag and Mr Boddington's opinion was that with the strength of the Ruger action, proper bullet and placement it would be fine. I never did use it for Cape Buffalo but it sure ventilated a bull moose.

Boddington tons of experience and knowledge. He writes a lot. He never critiacizes anything or anyone. You have not seen him write ANYTHING on this cartridge on cape buff. Why you ask? He is smart enough not to use it on one. Ask ANY PH, they do not like this cartridge. It is under powered and you are asking for a problem using it....

 

[dogcat1]

Well how does it stack up compared to handgun hunting dg?
I read 44 mag, 45 colt, 454, the 500
And then all the older hot handguns that Ross Sigfred used in the 80 and 90?

Again, makes no sense to use a handgun on cape buff or ele or hippo or lion. Why? For ego? Not enough power and not good in a problem. Use a rifle that has the power needed to kill the buff quickly and cleanly.
Waste of time and effort to use a handgun to stoke pride or ego or whatever.

 

[Tundra Tiger]

.45-70 - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

1,189 to 3,489 depending on loading...

I don't understand why someone would want to travel 2,000 miles to shoot at something with a 150 year old cartridge, just because they can.

I think the animal deserves better.

My 2 buffalo - as well as several plains game species - died in less than a literal 10 count. How exactly could they have gotten the "better" you claim they deserved? I take humane kills as serious as anyone, and my .45-70 did/does just that. I don't hunt with mine "just because I can" but because I enjoy hunting with lever action rifles. You don't have to understand the specific things that give me pleasure. I am sure you have many things I wouldn't understand either.

 

[Tundra Tiger]

Boddington tons of experience and knowledge. He writes a lot. He never critiacizes anything or anyone. You have not seen him write ANYTHING on this cartridge on cape buff. Why you ask? He is smart enough not to use it on one. Ask ANY PH, they do not like this cartridge. It is under powered and you are asking for a problem using it....

Ask my 2 PHs what they thought. They were very impressed.

I repeat: have you used one yourself? If not maybe your view from the bleachers isn't all that clear.

 

[Tundra Tiger]

"Use a rifle that has the power needed to kill the buff quickly and cleanly."

Under 10 seconds... a few long strides from where shot and they fell over. How much quicker and cleaner do you need?

 

[WAB]

[emoji[emoji6]][emoji6]" data-quote="Tundra Tiger" data-source="post: 0" class="bbCodeBlock bbCodeBlock--expandable bbCodeBlock--quote js-expandWatch">

"Use a rifle that has the power needed to kill the buff quickly and cleanly."

Under [emoji[emoji6][emoji6]] seconds... a few long strides from where shot and they fell over. How much quicker and cleaner do you need?

I’ve shot a number of Buffalo. I think I’ve only killed one that went down quicker than that.

 

[Flbt]

No. Not enough gun. It is fun for "wannabee's" but not anyone with a centigram of sense would use it on DG. It is an outdated, under powered caliber that has no real place for hunters in 2025 or 1980 for that matter.

Why use an inferior product when pursuing your dream hunt? Makes no sense.

Why use a hard to find Ne cartridge in a 100+ year old rifle why use a handgun why use a bow?

 

[275r7x57]

What about…???
Bow Hunting?
Handgun Hunting?
Black Powder Express Rife Hunting?
And the list goes on.

We celebrate someone when they write a report on using a 150 year old BPE rife and retuning the rife back to Africa for its intended purpose.

A 45-70 is more than capable with the right load and the right shot placement. Is there better choices, yes. Is there a better choice than the 375 H&H that we all holding to such high standards, yes the 416 Rigby and so on.

I have seen a lot of very capable men take a lot of animals with not so capable cartridges. On the other hand I have seen a lot of “so called men” have trouble with taking animals with very capable cartridges.

Know your rifle.
Know your cartridge.
Know yourself.
And know your own limitations!

By the way I personally think bow hunting DG is one of the most inhumane ways to take an animal and just plan stupid.

 

[Green Chile]

All of it can and has been done but handguns on buff are legal in some places and not in others. Some PHs will allow it and some won’t. Ross Seyfried is an expert with all sporting firearms and a world champion action pistol competitor. Not many could compare to his abilities.

 

[Bandera]

.45-70 - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

1,189 to 3,489 depending on loading...

I don't understand why someone would want to travel 2,000 miles to shoot at something with a 150 year old cartridge, just because they can.

I think the animal deserves better.

I will be using a 127 year old cartridge the 450-400 on a hunt in 2027.
The 450-400 NE 2050fps / M.E.3732 ft.lbs sectional density .340
By the looks of it the 450-400 is not to far off the numbers of the 45-70. Except for sectional density.

The .458 has to get 450 grains to hit the .304 SD mark.
Most 45-70’s do not have the propper twist to shoot that bullet well.

High end 45-70 loads
Buffalo Bore
45-70 Magnum - Lever Gun Ammo - 405 gr. J.F.N.(2,000fps/M.E.3,597 ft.lbs.) SD .276
Barnes 400 grain TSX 1981fps / M.E. 3486 ft.lbs SD .272

Then we have the bullet that is a bit of a head scratcher to me, CEB Raptor bullets.
I don’t have any load data for them.

Being a numbers guy and believing in Sectional Density I would opt for the heaviest bullet I could get to shoot well, except for maybe the CEB bullets.

 

[Safari Dave]

My 2 buffalo - as well as several plains game species - died in less than a literal 10 count. How exactly could they have gotten the "better" you claim they deserved? I take humane kills as serious as anyone, and my .45-70 did/does just that. I don't hunt with mine "just because I can" but because I enjoy hunting with lever action rifles. You don't have to understand the specific things that give me pleasure. I am sure you have many things I wouldn't understand either.

Kudo's to you, and your excellent marksmanship!

However, there are many people in America who, "win" big-game hunts at auctions for Africa and have no idea of how to hunt African game.

 

[Rocked and Loaded]

.45-70 - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

1,189 to 3,489 depending on loading...

I don't understand why someone would want to travel 2,000 miles to shoot at something with a 150 year old cartridge, just because they can.

I think the animal deserves better.

To be fair, the 416 rigby is 114 years old and the 404 Jeffry is 120. The age is largely irrelevant.

Now the performance is another matter.

 

[Safari Dave]

The .45/70 was never intended to be a big-game cartridge.

It just "filled the bill" for a while until another militarily cartridge came along for the U.S.A.

The .30-40 Krag had a short run.

Then, it was the .30/06 Springfield....

And, the USA hasn't won a war since we quit using the .30/06...


Just saying...

 

[1dirthawker]

I know there is a difference in the cape buff and a bear
I not sure I would want the 45-70 on a big bear.
On of the things with the buff ( I do know there a difference) but it looks like a big cow.

for what its worth i have shot 4 brown bears with it. works pretty good on them, but, 200 yards is a pretty long poke at any brown bear with any rifle.

 

[Tundra Tiger]

Kudo's to you, and your excellent marksmanship!

However, there are many people in America who, "win" big-game hunts at auctions for Africa and have no idea of how to hunt African game.

I do appreciate that good sir. I guess my thought would be that some of those maybe would struggle with any platform or caliber, if they don't adequately prepare. I was in constant communication with my PH during load development and practice. His input was critical.