4457 changes this past week

[Royal27]

RogerH, thanks!! Royal, I think its the RSA end that states no older than 6 months. Or am I missing something?

Thats my point.

1. We haven't seen anything official from the SA end that I'm aware of.
2. Why would SA make a requirement that a 4457 be less than six months old, but not make the UK license to have a less than six month requirement?

I appreciate the email that @RogerHeintzman provided, but it isn't any type of official documentation.

 

[sestoppelman]

Written by PHASA and forwarded by our CBP folks. Sounds official to me.

 

[Royal27]

Written by PHASA and forwarded by our CBP folks. Sounds official to me.

Perhaps I'm being dense?

Please show me anything that is officially from PHASA or CBP. I'm simply looking for more than an email from a CBP employee, that forwarded an email from a safari operator (not PHASA), who says they have something from PHASA that is allegedly an official change to SAPS policy.

I've looked on the PHASA website and see nothing about this. Wonder why? I don't see anything on the CBP site either?

This could very well be true. I just want to see something official as opposed to hearing something that sounds official.

 

[sestoppelman]

Well of course you are being dense you boob! You are trying to make sense of the nonsensical!! Would be nice if someone from PHASA chimed in here or one of the Meet and Greets.

 

[Royal27]

LOL!

 

[RogerHeintzman]

Guys,

It is RSA not USA that the requirement comes from. Did you see the posted email from PHASA that Jerome posted for me?

Seems pretty clear. Read the highlighted line , without the proof, no permit and confiscation of firearm(s). Why would USA have anything to do with this?

It is a pain in the A%% for me to get to customs, I have updated my 4457 and not taking chances, whether or not I have a pre-approved permit.

 

[Areaonereal]

Visited my local Custom office yesterday, only ten minute drive, spoke with the Senior Inspector and had a updated 4457 issued. Even tho I already have a pre approved permit thru Afton House I am taking no chances. Hope this is not another boondoggle overreaction like the export permit fiasco was last year. The most current 4457 still has a expiration date from February 2016.

 

[JimP]

Without reading through 4 pages on this subject, has anyone thought to contact Henry at Rifle Permits and see what he knows? You would figure that he is doing this daily and might just know something.

 

[AfricaHunting.com]

Without reading through 4 pages on this subject, has anyone thought to contact Henry at Rifle Permits and see what he knows? You would figure that he is doing this daily and might just know something.

I notified Henry at riflepermits.com and here was his reply: http://www.africahunting.com/threads/4457-changes-this-past-week.28637/page-2#post-266510.

I emailed Henry Durrheim at riflepermits.com in regards to this issue and here is his reply:


Hi Jerome

We don’t have any issues currently with the SA Police, they still do accept old 4457 forms, we did however had a problem last year when the SA Police at the airport refused to issue permits as they referred to the expiry date on the CBP4457 customs form and informed the client that the form had expired, we then enquired with US customs and this was the feedback from US customs:

Recently you requested personal assistance from our on-line support center. Below is a summary of your request and our response.

If this issue is not resolved to your satisfaction, you may reopen it within the next 7 days.

Thank you for allowing us to be of service to you.

Subject
Form 4457 has an expiration date of 2/29/2016 and we are told will not be accept...


Discussion Thread
Response Via Email (PIO Butler)
12/16/2015 08:17 AM

Thank you for contacting the U.S. Customs and Border Protection (CBP) INFO Center.

Although this form is widely accepted in other countries, the purpose of CBP Form 4457 is to prove the item was in the U.S. prior to your travels, not proof of ownership to other countries. As long as the Certificate of Registration is for the same equipment, it can be used more than once. The description of the item and serial number must match. The expiration and subsequent replacement of the form does not negate the validity of the registration. Please check with the South African embassy to see what alternative documents they will accept as proof of ownership in the event the form is not accepted. The expiration is just the date that triggers a review of the form by the Office of Management and Budget. These types of forms continue to be valid until they are replaced by a new form.

If you have any other questions or concerns, please feel free to call our toll-free number 877-CBP-5511 (877-227-5511). From outside the United States, please call 202-325-8000 - you may incur charges from your telephone service provider for this call. Our service hours are Monday through Friday from 9 a.m.-4 p.m. Eastern Time. We are closed on all U.S. federal holidays.

We hope our answers ease your entry into the United States. Please understand these answers are informational only, The CBP officer who speaks with you upon arrival determines the admissibility of goods and visitors.

Thank you again for contacting the CBP INFO Center.

Sincerely,
CBP INFO Center


Kind regards,
Henry

 

[Royal27]

Guys,

It is RSA not USA that the requirement comes from. Did you see the posted email from PHASA that Jerome posted for me?

Seems pretty clear. Read the highlighted line , without the proof, no permit and confiscation of firearm(s). Why would USA have anything to do with this?

It is a pain in the A%% for me to get to customs, I have updated my 4457 and not taking chances, whether or not I have a pre-approved permit.

Totally understand the change is allegedy coming from RSA.

What I'm questioning is the source. Your e-mail didn't come from PHASA (at least not as shown). Yes, there is a sentence within the e-mail that states "From PHASA" but the e-mail itself is from holmessafaris, not PHASA. Again, please show me something officially from PHASA, or better yet SAPS as PHASA is not the rule maker in this case.

I also guess I missed the post where Henry from riflepermits stated there wasn't an issue, other than an over zealous officer it appears. That happens everywhere, including here.

By all means take every and extra precaution. I'm not at all diputing that there couldn't be an issue in a paricular case. I'm disputing that there is any documented evidence of a change to SAPS policy and requirements.

Hope this is not another boondoggle overreaction like the export permit fiasco was last year. The most current 4457 still has a expiration date from February 2016.

I think it is a boondoggle. The EIN was at least real and documented, but then not enforced. There is no proof that I've seen that this is a "real" issue. But as I stated above, extra precaution never hurts.

 

[JimP]

I also guess I missed the post where Henry from riflepermits stated there wasn't an issue, other than an over zealous officer it appears. That happens everywhere, including here.

.

Easier for the South African SAPs officer make more money in bribes.

 

[wesheltonj]

Does not effect Riflepermits, Afton House, African Sky Air2000, etc as it clearly states for does not apply for preauthorized permits, only does without. Thus why I said its the full employment act for the Meet and Greet services.

 

[Royal27]

Wanted to follow up on this.

Went to SA and checked guns at Tambo upon arrival, at Tambo again to go to PLZ, again at PLZ to come home, and finally again at Tambo.

I had two 4457s, one with the "expiration date," one without. As with both of my previous trips I was never asked for the 4457 while in SA. The only time it was required was at U.S. customs back in Atlanta for its true and intended purpose.

In my opinion the expiration date is moot, and there certainly wasn't any "policy change" that impacted me. As always, your mileage may vary.

And I didn't use any type of rifle service this time either as I wasn't worried about connecting flights.

 

[PHOENIX PHIL]

Wanted to follow up on this.

Went to SA and checked guns at Tambo upon arrival, at Tambo again to go to PLZ, again at PLZ to come home, and finally again at Tambo.

I had two 4457s, one with the "expiration date," one without. As with both of my previous trips I was never asked for the 4457 while in SA. The only time it was required was at U.S. customs back in Atlanta for its true and intended purpose.

In my opinion the expiration date is moot, and there certainly wasn't any "policy change" that impacted me. As always, your mileage may vary.

And I didn't use any type of rifle service this time either as I wasn't worried about connecting flights.

I'm surprised SAPS didn't ask you for the 4457's. They've always asked me for mine as part of getting the rifle permit.

 

[sestoppelman]

Wanted to follow up on this.

Went to SA and checked guns at Tambo upon arrival, at Tambo again to go to PLZ, again at PLZ to come home, and finally again at Tambo.

I had two 4457s, one with the "expiration date," one without. As with both of my previous trips I was never asked for the 4457 while in SA. The only time it was required was at U.S. customs back in Atlanta for its true and intended purpose.

In my opinion the expiration date is moot, and there certainly wasn't any "policy change" that impacted me. As always, your mileage may vary.

And I didn't use any type of rifle service this time either as I wasn't worried about connecting flights.

I don't quite understand this last part. You would normally really want to use the service IF you WERE hunting in RSA as opposed to moving on to another destination would you not? Because if you are only transiting RSA, no permits are needed.

 

[sestoppelman]

I'm surprised SAPS didn't ask you for the 4457's. They've always asked me for mine as part of getting the rifle permit.

Guessing he means since he did the license on the ground, they didn't ask. I would not expect SAPS to want to see a 4457 either, that's really only for our CBP folks to look at. I know its listed on the permit app when filling out the SAPS form when doing it early though. Perhaps there is really no rhyme or reason to any of this baloney.

 

[Royal27]

Guessing he means since he did the license on the ground, they didn't ask. I would not expect SAPS to want to see a 4457 either,

Correct - no pre-approval this time. All done on site.

I don't quite understand this last part. You would normally really want to use the service IF you WERE hunting in RSA as opposed to moving on to another destination would you not? Because if you are only transiting RSA, no permits are needed.

Was really just pointing out I didn't have pre-approval. I made it confusing as I mentioned the connections. To me the real value of the gun service is making dang sure you don't miss that next flight due to an issue! I didn't have that concern this trip.

 

[edward]

the truth is who ever is looking at you does it their way,apparently,no set rules,but you better have one or else.

 

[RogerHeintzman]

Thanks Royal27,

I leave in 27 days and have a pre-approved permit waiting. I connect to Kimberley the next day so that is not a issue, I just did not want to deal with the SAPS people. I have been asked for my 4457, but never had any issues of 7 previous hunts.

I asked Annelise with Afton Guest House who did my permit about the 6 month date rule and she also said it needs to be followed. Better to be safe then sorry.